Re: 2013 World Motorsports Discussion Thread

[topgearbrzgt86]

Jim: No, it's definitely not the money. As long as Lotus provides a great car, Mr. Alboreto, Kimi won't leave. 

[Professor Voodoo]

Jim: No, it's definitely not the money. As long as Lotus provides a great car, Mr. Alboreto, Kimi won't leave. 

Well, it goes beyond that.  Lotus is definitely not on the same financial footing as Ferrari, so they don't have the resources to develop equipment like the bigger team.  The fact that they have had two good seasons is due to the fact that it's a very good shop (they've won the World Driver's Title 4 times remember) but good shops can falter too.  If they miss the mark next year they could easily find themselves scrapping for points with Williams...and it's a hard climb back to the top with thin cash reserves.
That isn't going to happen with Ferrari.  If they miss the mark in 2014 they have the resources to fight their way back.

And Kimi is certainly not above the lure of a big paycheck.  In 2008 & 2009 he was the highest paid driver in the sport.  He's not one of the guys who likes to work cheap, and neither is his manager Steve Robertson.

Personally I'd prefer to see Räikkönen stay at Enstone...and frankly I think he will.  Alonso has proven himself a bit delicate when challenged by a tough team-mate so Stefano Domenicali will likely try to keep his superstar happy.  Now if only Massa could score some Constructor Championship points...

[topgearbrzgt86]

Oof, Kara may not like you for calling Alonso "delicate."

And anyway, you've seen Marussia make do with no money, and they're ahead of Caterham!

Jim: Now, Voodoo, all the teams are on equal footing next year, so, it's really fair game after 2013. Oh, and thanks for calling Alo delicate. Wafu!

[Professor Voodoo]

Oof, Kara may not like you for calling Alonso "delicate."

Hey, we all saw his jimmies get rustled by Hamilton during that one year at McLaren.  Even Kara can't deny that.

And anyway, you've seen Marussia make do with no money, and they're ahead of Caterham!

Yeah, and I don't think we're gonna see Räikkönen sign for either of them anytime soon.

Jim: Now, Voodoo, all the teams are on equal footing next year, so, it's really fair game after 2013. Oh, and thanks for calling Alo delicate. Wafu!

 Yeah, "equal footing."  But all the same I think the teams with big sacks of development cash are still going to be a little more "equal" than the rest! 

It's just conjecture, but here's something that might make Kimi a bit more interested in Ferrari:  
During last weekend's US broadcast of the Belgian GP the commentors mentioned the possibility that Ferrari is interested in returning to sports car racing (i.e. Le Mans) at the top LMP1 level.  Now, Räikkönen is certainly the kind of guy who likes to drive different sorts of race cars...could he be lured to Maranello by the promise of a sports car seat once his F1 time is done?

That's just idle speculation; I'd give it only a 10% chance of really happening.

[topgearbrzgt86]

Oof, Kara may not like you for calling Alonso "delicate."

Hey, we all saw his jimmies get rustled by Hamilton during that one year at McLaren.  Even Kara can't deny that.

And anyway, you've seen Marussia make do with no money, and they're ahead of Caterham!

Yeah, and I don't think we're gonna see Räikkönen sign for either of them anytime soon.

Jim: Now, Voodoo, all the teams are on equal footing next year, so, it's really fair game after 2013. Oh, and thanks for calling Alo delicate. Wafu!

 Yeah, "equal footing."  But all the same I think the teams with big sacks of development cash are still going to be a little more "equal" than the rest! 

It's just conjecture, but here's something that might make Kimi a bit more interested in Ferrari:  
During last weekend's US broadcast of the Belgian GP the commentors mentioned the possibility that Ferrari is interested in returning to sports car racing (i.e. Le Mans) at the top LMP1 level.  Now, Räikkönen is certainly the kind of guy who likes to drive different sorts of race cars...could he be lured to Maranello by the promise of a sports car seat once his F1 time is done?

That's just idle speculation; I'd give it only a 10% chance of really happening.

Jim: Obviously, we're not seeing the Iceman at the back.  And actually, I would like to see Ferrari and McLaren duke it out at Le Mans! Perhaps Lotus, Renault, Mercedes, Ford, Peugeot and (possibly) Red Bull [shudders] could do the same? I'd love to see that!

[Kiskaloo]

Alonso has proven himself a bit delicate when challenged by a tough team-mate so Stefano Domenicali will likely try to keep his superstar happy.

I expect the real issue is that Luca di Montezemolo would be admitting that it wasn't his best idea to have replaced Kimi with Fernando in the first place if he brings Kimi back.

[topgearbrzgt86]

Voodoo: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109548

[Kiskaloo]

Ferrari Confirms Kimi Will Partner Alonso in 2014



Kara: "Time to brush up on my Finnish. Unless you want to translate for me, Claes."

Claes: "I'm Swedish you chowderhead."

[topgearbrzgt86]

Jim: Alright, I was wrong. That's fine - but I do have this odd worry for Fernando...two roosters in a henhouse. (to Kara) And I can speak a bit of Finnish myself, bakame. But the fields will be evened out now; new regs, new cars; anything can happen.

[Kiskaloo]

http://thejudge13.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/untitled67.jpg

[topgearbrzgt86]

http://thejudge13.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/untitled67.jpg

Jim: That's Kimi for ya. (imitates Kimi) Just leave me alone, I know what to do! (normal) Gold.

[Professor Voodoo]

Jim: No, it's definitely not the money. As long as Lotus provides a great car, Mr. Alboreto, Kimi won't leave. 

Sorry to dredge up old stuff, but Kimi himself has put an end to the debate... Link to crash.net story.

"I like to race, that's the only reason why I'm here and it doesn't matter what team it is," he said. "The reasons why [I haven't been paid] you will have to ask from the team, but the reason why I left the team is purely from the money side - the thing is, I haven't got my salary.

[topgearbrzgt86]

Jim: No, it's definitely not the money. As long as Lotus provides a great car, Mr. Alboreto, Kimi won't leave. 

Sorry to dredge up old stuff, but Kimi himself has put an end to the debate... Link to crash.net story.

"I like to race, that's the only reason why I'm here and it doesn't matter what team it is," he said. "The reasons why [I haven't been paid] you will have to ask from the team, but the reason why I left the team is purely from the money side - the thing is, I haven't got my salary.

Gee, Voodoo, Jim already admitted he was wrong.  He's still got a lingering worry for Fer already, though. Something about 'two roosters in a hen-house' and 'bad combo' and that.

Jim: Please don't rub it in. My creator's right; I did say I was wrong, and I have no shame of being wrong.

[Professor Voodoo]

My worry is for the Enstone shop.  Without a star like Raikkonen to drive for them I fear they'll be relegated to scrapping for points with Force India & Sauber.  They were really hoping for additional engine support from Renault in 2014, but without Kimi driving for them that'll be a tough sell.

[topgearbrzgt86]

Romain has the speed, and if they catch Felipe Massa, they should be able to have some sort of good luck. I mean, it's not like Romain's gonna crash again, is he?

[Kiskaloo]

My worry is for the Enstone shop.  Without a star like Raikkonen to drive for them I fear they'll be relegated to scrapping for points with Force India & Sauber.  They were really hoping for additional engine support from Renault in 2014, but without Kimi driving for them that'll be a tough sell.

The original FIA driver interview release for Singapore listed Nico Hulkenberg as being with Lotus, so maybe he's heading to Lotus and that could help with development (along with the extra cash the new sponsors have brought in.

Not sure where Massa is going. He's been talking to Lotus and McLaren and his race engineer wants to return to England...

[Professor Voodoo]

Romain has the speed, and if they catch Felipe Massa, they should be able to have some sort of good luck. I mean, it's not like Romain's gonna crash again, is he?

Enstone would absolutely love to have an experienced guy like Massa, but now that everybody knows Lotus never paid Kimi, how eager is Felipe going to be to sign with them?
I think Pastor Maldonado is more likely for Lotus.  He doesn't have to worry about getting paid because he's the one bringing the PDVSA money.

There's an open seat at Toro Rosso...and if my prediction about Pastor comes true one at Williams too.  Would Massa accept either of those?  Doubt it.

The original FIA driver interview release for Singapore listed Nico Hulkenberg as being with Lotus, so maybe he's heading to Lotus and that could help with development (along with the extra cash the new sponsors have brought in.

Interesting.  But does Hulkenberg bring with him any big sponsors that could buoy up Lotus?

[topgearbrzgt86]

News from Singapore: Looks like Mother Nature might 'sing-a-pouring' rain song for this year's GP. 

[topgearbrzgt86]

Romain has the speed, and if they catch Felipe Massa, they should be able to have some sort of good luck. I mean, it's not like Romain's gonna crash again, is he?

Enstone would absolutely love to have an experienced guy like Massa, but now that everybody knows Lotus never paid Kimi, how eager is Felipe going to be to sign with them?

I think Pastor Maldonado is more likely for Lotus.  He doesn't have to worry about getting paid because he's the one bringing the PDVSA money.

There's an open seat at Toro Rosso...and if my prediction about Pastor comes true one at Williams too.  Would Massa accept either of those?  Doubt it.

There is always the off-chance that Massa will want to race. He'll want to be with a top team, like Lotus, and damn the payment anyway.

[topgearbrzgt86]

Proof in point: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109958

[Professor Voodoo]

News from Singapore: Looks like Mother Nature might 'sing-a-pouring' rain song for this year's GP. 

That could be fun. 

Concerning Massa's money; on the surface it seems like all the drivers could brush off the petty concern of being paid.  They're all millionaires already after all.
But there's a lot more to it.  A driver's manager typically gets 15%.  Personal trainers, dieticians & publicists also get a cut.  In Raikkonen's case all those people didn't get paid...or Kimi himself had to pay them out of pocket.

Development money is a big deal too.  If a team can't afford to pay their driver they're probably not paying their shop staff or suppliers either.  Next year is going to be an especially expensive season (with the new regulations coming in)...they're going to need to have a big warchest of funds to adapt with their competition.
I'd love to see Lotus/Enstone do well, and challenge the bigger teams.  I've liked them since they were called Toleman and had Teo Fabi & Gerhard Berger driving for them.  But I just don't know how stable the team's financial footing is, and if I was Massa (coming from the best funded team in the sport) I'd want to see some guarantees.

[Kiskaloo]

The investment in Lotus by Infinity Racing is not yet official, so that might have played a role. I've heard reports that Kimi was willing to stay with Lotus, but they had to bring his payments up to date by a certain date or he'd go to Ferrari.

[Alfisti]

On a different note: here's Chris Harris, in a Lister Jaguar, battling a DB4 Lightweight(?), on a damp circuit, at this year's Goodwood Revival.

[Alfisti]

Lets be honest here, Sebastian Vettel's not exactly the most popular driver on the grid (I'm not exactly a huge fan myself), so anything which sounds like a big cry of "Seb's cheating!" I tend to take with a particularly large grain of salt. Still, interesting reading:

Jalopnik - Red Bull May Have Invented a Secret New Hybrid Technology

[Kiskaloo]

I still think it has something to do with their engine mapping and exhaust system.

[topgearbrzgt86]

Lets be honest here, Sebastian Vettel's not exactly the most popular driver on the grid (I'm not exactly a huge fan myself), so anything which sounds like a big cry of "Seb's cheating!" I tend to take with a particularly large grain of salt. Still, interesting reading:

Jalopnik - Red Bull May Have Invented a Secret New Hybrid Technology

Really, the only way he can lose if he DNF's. 

And on an unrelated note, to stop Triela bragging about Sebastian, Jim has come up with a rather preposterous (in my opinion) plan; he kidnaps Tri's Sebastian teddy bear, and says that if Vettel wins the Japanese GP, Jim sets fire to the teddy bear. If he wins the WDC in Japan or DNF there, he'll give it back to Tri, but with a huge warning on her face.

Now, back to the topic; I don't like Vettel because of Multi-21, but if people say he's cheating, it annoys me. Seb and RBR are winning legitimately, period. Again, I may not like the driver or the team, but at least they win the right way, at the risk of making the race a bore-fest. 

If the FIA find out they are cheating, then they may strip Vettel of his 4th WDC, and RBR of its 4th WCC, as well as turn fans away from F1; worst case scenario, Vettel, RBR are excluded from F1 indefinitely, Vettel becomes most infamous champion, RBR labeled as 'cheats' in F1 History. Best case scenario, the tech is banned, RBR pay a fine, Vettel keeps his WDC, and RBR still keep their WCC.

[Alfisti]

Yep...

[Kiskaloo]

In F1 news, now that they're off the calendar, the Valencia Grand Prix street circuit is shipping 6 million euro worth of equipment (fencing, barriers, stands, etc.) to New Jersey to try and get the Grand Prix of the Americas off the ground.

Pastor Maldonado is sick of the Williams FW35's inability to be improved and his manager (Nicholas Todt) is working hard to get him the Lotus seat, but since his sponsorship is locked into Williams, not sure what he can bring that would appeal to the Boys in Black and Gold. Todt also manages Massa and he's dangling Massa's $6 million in sponsorship at Williams to take him if Maldonado bolts. The Williams is a piece of junk, however, and Massa has said he does not want to drive for a back-marker team (which Williams unfortunately now is).

[Kiskaloo]

With Lotus wanting Hulkenberg, it appears that Massa is going to Williams, as Maldonado has apparently lost his sponsorship from PDVSA which ends any reason to keep him with the team. 

Vitaly Petrov may be taking the seat at Sauber originally assigned to Sergey Sirotkin as Sirotkin is said to be millions behind on his payments and Petrov has solid sponsorship in hand. In such a scenario, Sirotkin would become the team's backup/test driver.

And the Indian Supreme Court on Friday will hear a petition to cancel the Indian Grand Prix this weekend on account of race organisers Jaypee Sports having failed to pay the tax due from last year's race. The Court is not expected to cancel the race.

[Kiskaloo]

Nice to see the FIA is staying true to form...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110943

[topgearbrzgt86]

Wow, again? Seriously, they should ease up on the celebration penalty. He won his 4th championship, let him have his day!

[Professor Voodoo]

"Due to the special circumstances the Stewards accepted the explanation of the driver.

Considering India is not on the schedule for next year, and taking into account how the crowd has embraced Vettel over these past few years I'd say it was well worth €25,000 to provide a memorable salute. 

"The team failed to instruct the driver sufficiently to return directly to post race parc ferme."

Yeah...they needed to remind him...because he never wins or anything.

[topgearbrzgt86]

Hmm, just read that recently. But still, let him have the day; he earned it.

[topgearbrzgt86]

Enstone would absolutely love to have an experienced guy like Massa, but now that everybody knows Lotus never paid Kimi, how eager is Felipe going to be to sign with them?
I think Pastor Maldonado is more likely for Lotus.  He doesn't have to worry about getting paid because he's the one bringing the PDVSA money.

There's an open seat at Toro Rosso...and if my prediction about Pastor comes true one at Williams too.  Would Massa accept either of those?  Doubt it.

You might wanna eat your words, Voodoo: http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12474/8988967/felipe-massa-reveals-he-is-in-talks-with-williams-about-a-2014-drive

[Kiskaloo]

To be fair, a lot has changed in the past month and the Silly Season is still in full form:

Lotus wants Hulkenberg and only Hulkenberg. Now all they have to do is figure out how to pay for him (since their new partnership appears to be DoA). Rumors continue to swirl that Alonso will go to McLaren in 2014 and if he does, Hulkenberg will definitely replace him at the Scuderia.

While Daniil Kavyat is part of Red Bull's junior racing program, Toro Rosso signed him for one reason only - because he's Russian and Bernie Ecclestone wants to be sure that there is a Russian driver on the grid at Sochi next year.

Maldonado is openly critical of Williams and PDVSA is now actively trying to exit their sponsorship contract with the team due to a sports-backing corruption scandal at home. So Williams now has no reason to keep Maldonado.

Massa's sponsorship money is from Petrobras, an energy company like PDVSA, so they'd be in conflict if PDVSA was still on the Williams. If PDVSA is gone, no issues with Petrobras sponsorship on the car.

[Professor Voodoo]

You might wanna eat your words, Voodoo: http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12474/8988967/felipe-massa-reveals-he-is-in-talks-with-williams-about-a-2014-drive

Here's what's changed...

Massa's sponsorship money is from Petrobras,

The Petrobras money was not in play weeks ago...Felipe hadn't started fund raising yet (or it just wasn't public yet).  Now Massa is in a position where he doesn't have to worry about getting paid because he's the one bringing the money.

There's the distinct possibility that Maldonado might be out of F1 entirely.  Aside from that one perfect weekend at the Spanish GP last year he really hasn't been that impressive in his 3 years.

[topgearbrzgt86]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111124 Perhaps Hulkenberg is going to Lotus after all.

[Kiskaloo]

That's good news for Hulkenberg, as it looked like his only viable option would have been as a Ferrari test driver.

[topgearbrzgt86]

http://sundayafternoonclub.blogs.topgear.com/2013/11/11/massa-goes-to-williams/

I hoped this would happen.

Also: http://eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-raikkonen-miss-rest-season-095039702--f1.html

Not boding well for your Iceman to Fezza, eh, Simone?

[Kiskaloo]

Not surprised about Massa to Williams. Maldonado hates the team and PDVSA have been trying to get out of their GBP 25 million annual fee, which is the only reason Maldonado had the ride. I assume this means PDVSA has successfully gotten out of their fee, which allows the team to re-sponsor under Petrobas (which is paying for Massa).

That being said, Maldonado evidently still has financial backing and is now linked to Lotus as the Quantum deal may not be as "done" as Quantum says for it it was, you'd think Nico Hulkenberg would be in the car (as he's now a free agent and can leave Sauber at will), but so far Lotus have not called.

As for Sauber, it looks like Sirokin is not coming as his financial backing has collapsed and he has no Super License. So Nico can now stay if Lotus can't afford him or they take Pastor for his cash.

As for Kimi, there were rumors he might have driven for Ferrari at Austin as Alonso is evidently still under the weather from his injury at Abu Dhabi, but he's been tweeting he'll be in the car at Austin.

[Professor Voodoo]

At first I thought it was just posturing over his absent paycheck but it now looks certain that Raikkonen will skip the last two rounds of the season.  I'm sure plenty of drivers are eager to get into that seat...personally I hope Davide Valsecchi finally gets his chance to start a Grand Prix.

Kimi stepping aside shatters the chance for an interesting record:  This could have been the first year in World Championship history where the same group of drivers started every race of the season...no skipped races, no substitutions.  Last night I went through the results of every GP season...the closest we've ever gotten was 2000, but Eddie Irvine sat out one race (the Austrian GP) due to abdominal pains and Luciano Burti replaced him.
Maybe next year...

[topgearbrzgt86]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24903504

Looks like McLaren are changing drivers...again. Perez out, Kevin Magnussen in. I kinda have my doubts here.

[Kiskaloo]

The Grand Prix of America at New Jersey is looking to be pretty much as still-born as US F1, but evidently a new race on a new circuit has been approved to replace it per Bernie Ecclestone during his bribery trial. Latest talks have been with Morocco of all places (the last Moroccan Grand Prix was held in 1958 at the Ain-Diab Circuit in Casablanca), but there is much skepticism this is the new race.

Maybe we'll have a Grand Prix of Wales? The council of Blenau Gwent (which evidently has the poorest kids in the UK) have given final approval to spending almost GBP 300 million on a "Circuit of Wales". Or maybe they'll hold the British Grand Prix there after 2020 when the contract at Silverstone is up. And speaking if Silverstone, the BRDC is selling the circuit for GBP 10 million, which is a bargain compared to the 100 million Euro the Nurburgring is said to be valued at, though it is unknown how much ADAC has bid to take over the ownership and administration of the famous circuit.

[Professor Voodoo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24903504

Looks like McLaren are changing drivers...again. Perez out, Kevin Magnussen in. I kinda have my doubts here.

What confuses me about this is McLaren's sponsorship situation.
We know Vodaphone is leaving but McLaren wasn't worried because they claim to have another mobile phone company lined up as main sponsor...they just won't announce who it is until the season is over.

Everyone assumed it was TELMEX, which backed Sergio Perez at Sauber.  But if Perez is out what doers that do to the TELMEX deal?  Was there ever a deal?  Were we all wrong, and it's another company that plans to sponsor McLaren?  Or maybe the British press is blowing smoke.

In other news;  No big surprise, with Maldonado exiting Williams PDVSA has gotten out of the final two years of their Grove contract.  

"I think when our numbers come out next year, people will see what has actually gone on behind the scenes with this whole arrangement.”

Does that mean they got a chunk of cash as parting settlement from the Venezuelan oil company?

The silly season started late this year, but it's certainly making up for lost time.

[topgearbrzgt86]

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-f1-teams-worried-ugly-2014-cars-155939278--f1.html

F1's 2014 regulations.

BTW, Voodoo, Vodafone is spelled with an 'f', not a 'ph'. It irritates me to see a sponsor's name misspelled.

[Kiskaloo]

What confuses me about this is McLaren's sponsorship situation.
We know Vodaphone is leaving but McLaren wasn't worried because they claim to have another mobile phone company lined up as main sponsor...they just won't announce who it is until the season is over.

Everyone assumed it was TELMEX, which backed Sergio Perez at Sauber.  But if Perez is out what doers that do to the TELMEX deal?  Was there ever a deal?  Were we all wrong, and it's another company that plans to sponsor McLaren?  Or maybe the British press is blowing smoke.

McLaren have delayed their sponsor announcement until after the MP4-29 unveiling on 2 December. That being said, whomever the sponsor is going to be is believed to have no bearing on a driver so it could still be Telmex even without Perez (though Telmex is mostly an Americas telecom). An inside favorite is Gillette (which is part of Proctor & Gamble).

In other news;  No big surprise, with Maldonado exiting Williams PDVSA has gotten out of the final two years of their Grove contract.  

"I think when our numbers come out next year, people will see what has actually gone on behind the scenes with this whole arrangement.”

Does that mean they got a chunk of cash as parting settlement from the Venezuelan oil company?

That seems to be the rumor as PDVSA had to make way so Petrobas could replace them (as Massa’s sponsor).

[Kiskaloo]

So the latest is that Heikki Kovalainen will be in the Lotus for Austin and Interlagos because Valsecchi gets nauseous in the simulator (if true, I can't see him getting a drive in F1) and that Nico is finishing out his contract with Sauber thanks to Ferrari loaning Sauber the money to pay his outstanding salary (in order to keep him from possibly scoring points for Lotus against Ferrari.

Oh, and if the new track Bernie approved is not in Casablanca or Wales, perhaps it will be Moscow as evidently a new track is going into the Russian capital and once completed, is expected to host the GP of Russia (which would move from Sochi).

[Kiskaloo]

Triple Indy 500 winner Dario Franchitti has been forced to retire from auto racing due to injuries sustained in the Grand Prix of Houston IndyCar race on 6 October 2013.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/motor/indycar/2013/11/14/dario-franchitti-retires-indycar-injured-crash/3537295/

[topgearbrzgt86]

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-maldonado-advanced-sauber-talks-133005124--f1.html


"Lotus is a good option, but even Sauber is a good option, even Force India is a good option," he said. "They have shown that they are very competitive.
"Force India has been more competitive than McLaren this year at the beginning. I think all of them have good potential for the future. We all know very well who has available seats and we will see."
When asked if the financial situation at Lotus would be a factor in his decision, he said: "It could be yes. When you evaluate a team, you evaluate everything, the background, sponsor situation, everything, not only the car."

[Kiskaloo]

With Quantum looking more and more about as ethereal as the Cheshire Cat's smile, Lotus is evidently talking to Sergio Perez as he has significant sponsorship money without the drama Maldonado also would bring.

[Sponsored content]