How to Properly Scare a Gunslinger Girl

For that matter, Jose and Hillshire would probably work too. Guh?

Oh lord! All aboard the gutter express…

That's a direct drive to SWA's recipe of its Eve of Destruction


Henrietta (tied to a chair): *watches Sandro rape Jose* NUUUUUUOOOOOOOOOOOO

=5 seconds of silence...=

Henrietta: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGHHHHHHH

(insert image of a mushroom cloud here)

"You tell me, over and over and over again my friend. Ah, you don't believe, we're on the Eve of Destruction~."

Expect Sandro evolving from a healthy man to a very-very healthy eunuch.

This in turn would be "How to scare the Social Welfare Agency" as the aftermath could lead into something more...bizarre with every members of the SWA becoming Henrietta's eunuch (with the exception of Jose) as she screams along the corridor:

"DON'T RAPE JOSE!!! HE'S MINE! MINE! MINE!!!!!" *rips another man* "NO ONE RAPES JOSE BUT MEEEEEE!! ME!!!!!!"

"NO ONE RAPES JOSE BUT MEEEEEE!! ME!!!!!!"

:poor-etta:

Panzer IV wrote:"DON'T RAPE JOSE!!! HE'S MINE! MINE! MINE!!!!!" *rips another man* "NO ONE RAPES JOSE BUT MEEEEEE!! ME!!!!!!"

Geez, never thought she could be that obsessive. :WTFWTF:

Geez, never thought she could be that obsessive.

Ohohoho, you never know what's inside an obsessive little girl's head who've been induced in drugs!

Can you say Hurricane Henrietta? :Henrietta:

Danjo3 wrote:Can you say Hurricane Henrietta? :Henrietta:

Italy will never be the same with her might.

Scare and torture are two different things. G.D. Wallez accomplished the torture part.

Henrietta - While threatening Jose is terrible, it angers her more than scares. This little missy would take some work. It would make her sad to watch Jose get killed as she can do nothing. Scare would take something different and unique.
.... I say convincing her that Jose was leaving the Agency because of her. Then she is convinced that Jose might be leaving the Agency for a woman. A sad Jose talks to Henrietta hinting at his attempts at suicide.

Triela - She's a tough lot. I doubt there's a lot that can scare her. Life threatening enemies of nature would be my best guess since how it would be the one enemy she couldn't fight: quicksand, army ants, a tornado, blah, blah, blah.
.... I'm going with receiving a doctor's note that says that at any irregular month of her cramps, she is suseptible to permenant prolonged menstruation. For those of you who don't know, that's having cramps for long, LONG periods of time (years even). Every time that time of the month came around...


Claes - She's also hard to scare, but it isn't too hard. Going perenantly blind, or losing her glasses. A fire threatening to burn all of the books in the Agency.


Rico - Easy. Rico can't move. She tries hard, but can't. Worse... she is trapped under great pressure because water is dripping. The ceiling to her room in the ship could collapse at any moment...

Angelica - Marco threatening her life.

And we have GD Wallez again...

Hm, Marksman... out of curiosity, since Wallez is 'good' and mentally traumatising adolecent killing machines that can kill a dozen men in a matter of minutes while physically evicerating them, how would he 'deal' with the fanon cyborgs like Leisel, Dani or Gwen? I'm sure his perverse but genius mind could come up with something.

(runs for cover fearing enradged authors baying for blood)

0.0 ... that wasn't a response I was expecting.

Anyway, what I posted wasn't something Wallez would follow upon, since those are for scaring, not torture. I wish I clarified.

I sorely wish I knew Dani and Gwen, I'm always interested in new cyborgs. I don't think I know Leisel enough to know, I haven't seen enough development of her character. Wallez always targets his opponents specifically, and elaborates on not just physical, but psychological distress.

Ggultra2764 wrote:Ways of scaring a Gunslinger Girl:

-Henrietta: Using Giuseppe as a meat shield.

-Rico- Give her hallucinogens to make her believe she's a parapelegic.

-Triela- Tie her down and force her to witness the making of a snuff film.

-Claes- Surround her with armed Mafia hitmen and arm her with her glasses glued to her face.

-Angelica- Record a negative comment of Angelica from Marco, lock Angelica in a room, and loop said negative comment over a loudspeaker in said room.

-Petra- Cut off one of her legs and play some video footage of a ballerina recital that you force her to watch.

this is sick of course it would work well and you would 5 brick cyborgs

zarien85 wrote:

Ggultra2764 wrote:Ways of scaring a Gunslinger Girl:

-Henrietta: Using Giuseppe as a meat shield.

-Rico- Give her hallucinogens to make her believe she's a parapelegic.

-Triela- Tie her down and force her to witness the making of a snuff film.

-Claes- Surround her with armed Mafia hitmen and arm her with her glasses glued to her face.

-Angelica- Record a negative comment of Angelica from Marco, lock Angelica in a room, and loop said negative comment over a loudspeaker in said room.

-Petra- Cut off one of her legs and play some video footage of a ballerina recital that you force her to watch.

this is sick of course it would work well and you would 5 brick cyborgs

Bricks have their uses.

lol yes, yes they mabey a computer person could make them do basic stuff like hold a gun and look cute

zarien85 wrote:lol yes, yes they mabey a computer person could make them do basic stuff like hold a gun and look cute

It will take more than just a computer tech to these girls to do anything. Their brains are still the only thing or one of the few things that is still human in them. Thus you will need a team of neurosurgeons, psychiatrists, psychologists, and other mind benders to get them to do the minimum...

hmmm you right

How to properly scare one of the 'borgs? Hmmm...okay, threaten official action against her handler.

Ferro: Let's see, your training scores are down 15%...your academic grades are barely passing...and you've missed the target on 2 of your last 5 missions.

Random Cyborg: (sullen but defiant) I suppose that means I'm on bathroom scrubbing duty...again.

Ferro: No; we have a new policy. Since it's your handler's duty to train & supervise you his pay will be cut 25% this month.

Random Cyborg: NOOOO!!! I'll work harder! I promise I'll do better! I'll be the best cyborg in the agency, just don't punish him! WHHHHAAAAAAAAA!!!

Behind the one-way glass...

Lorenzo: Hmmm, it seems to be working well.

Random Handler: I want a 25% raise for thinking of that.

Ooh, tie them to a metal chair with titanium rope and point a gun at their handler while they watch behind a bulletproof and metal-reinforced window, or something like that.

For Claes you could show her a video of a Padania sponsored book buring or something along those lines. Better yet show her the scene from ROD TV where Yomiko goes nuts and burns down the British Library. For Triela you could show her the live action sailor moon and tell her they found her long lost sister.

crazyidiot78 wrote:For Claes you could show her a video of a Padania sponsored book buring or something along those lines.

Farenheit 451

Nice I didn't think of that one

those were both good

for Henrietta you could restrain her to a bed and force her to watch every tme Jose got hurt

Alfisti wrote:

crazyidiot78 wrote:For Claes you could show her a video of a Padania sponsored book buring or something along those lines.

Farenheit 451

Tie Claes to a tree and have her watch rabbits and gophers go at her garden, then have Jean put out a cigarette on her rutabagas.

Tie Triela to a chair and make her watch Vic and Roberta.

But I guess it’s up to personal opinion as to how it would truly make her feel:

A. Scared
B. Pissed-off
C. Sad
D. Nauseous
E. Horny
F. All the above

4 all the above for rice give her morpheme so her body does not work

Danjo3 wrote:Tie Triela to a chair and make her watch Vic and Roberta.

But I guess it’s up to personal opinion as to how it would truly make her feel:

A. Scared
B. Pissed-off
C. Sad
D. Nauseous
E. Horny
F. All the above

G. Go Thermal Nuclear....

Personaly i think Elfen's go thermal nuclear is the most likely

I’m not exactly sure anymore. Triela seems to have come to terms with her impending demise, and the last chapter seemed to imply that she’s more concerned with his happiness then her own. At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if she ended up giving the two her blessing.

Danjo3 wrote:I’m not exactly sure anymore. Triela seems to have come to terms with her impending demise, and the last chapter seemed to imply that she’s more concerned with his happiness then her own. At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if she ended up giving the two her blessing.

Hmm...alternate possibility;

Maybe it's nothing, or maybe it's just a questionable translation, but Triela's thoughts seem...dare I say, ominous? Elsa died with her handler as well remember. We'll just have to wait and see.

On a lighter note...how to scare Britney?

Britney: NOOOOO!!! You can't make me ride in that! PLEASE!!!

And how does Britney scare...say, Kara?

Kara: NOOOOO!!! What have you done!?

Britney: What? It's got more room for shopping bags now. You should have seen the thing Biff wanted me to ride in.

Professor Voodoo wrote:On a lighter note...how to scare Britney?

Britney: NOOOOO!!! You can't make me ride in that! PLEASE!!!

That or threaten her with any piece of designer clothing by Paris Hilton.

Britney: Oh my god, just shoot me now!!!

Danjo3 wrote:

Professor Voodoo wrote:On a lighter note...how to scare Britney?

That or threaten her with any piece of designer clothing by Paris Hilton.

Britney: Oh my god, just shoot me now!!!

Rico: (taking things far too literally) Okay!

Rico shoots Britney in the arm. A few moments of silence follow as the smoke clears.

Britney: Oh yeah...I forgot, cyborg body. That was kind of pointless.

Rico: That looks like fun. You shoot me now!

Maybe it's nothing, or maybe it's just a questionable translation, but Triela's thoughts seem...dare I say, ominous? Elsa died with her handler as well remember. We'll just have to wait and see.

I'm suddenly imagining a yandere Triela with a fixed grin, a vacant and glazed thousand-yard stare, and a bloodied Winchester bayonet going all stab-happy murder-zombie like it's 1999. And it. Is. GLORIOUS.

During his brief stay at the Section 2 'compound', Alpha was invited to the girls annual Day of the Dead scary story telling party held in Triela and Claes' room.

As the lesser stories get passed around, 'someone' asks Alpha if he knows any scary stories and he looks over at Rachel and smiles.

Alpha: I know of a story from Upstate New York. A true story too. Rachel might know it too.

Rachel(crosses her arms): Which story?

Alpha: Remember the thing about the Smith sisters and their brother?

Rachel (smiles devilishly): Oh yeah, that one had me checking my closet for a month. Even Daddy was checking into the case because of how horrible it was.

Claes: ...So what happened?

Alpha recites the Tale of the Smith Sisters.

Afterwards finishing his recital of the story with help from Rachel, Alpha stood up.

Alpha: Well, I have an early morning tomorrow. You girls take care okay.

Rachel: Me too, Daddy is going to take me to breakfast and I want to be sure that I'm ready when he calls.

Everybody else in the room by the fleeting candlelight =

Professor Voodoo wrote:Maybe it's nothing, or maybe it's just a questionable translation, but Triela's thoughts seem...dare I say, ominous? Elsa died with her handler as well remember. We'll just have to wait and see.

I suppose it could happen, but knowing Triela’s character, it’s just impossible to believe she would ever do anything to hurt Hillshire. Elsa? Sure. Henrietta? Wouldn’t put it past her. But Triela? It’s just not in her nature. Yeah, at worst she might throw a hissy fit or slip into a deep depression, but she’s never once shown any psycho tendencies, especially when it comes to Hillshire.

But then again, everyone has their breaking point…

Robert Frazer wrote:I'm suddenly imagining a yandere Triela with a fixed grin, a vacant and glazed thousand-yard stare, and a bloodied Winchester bayonet going all stab-happy murder-zombie like it's 1999. And it. Is. GLORIOUS.

Well Michele does have a nice boat...

It's the irrational phobias that I consider the most useful (and comical) when it comes to character building.

Kara is afraid of spiders, Noel's terrified of ghosts, Allison does not like big trucks...personally I made Marisa afraid of nuns. Giving your character a humorous phobia (and a background story for why) is something I'd recommend to anyone building an OC.

It also occurs to me that a GsG cyborg might be more prone to irrational fears than even her normal coevals. People learn to overcome fear by experiencing & facing it. An agency cyborg's fear response is altered by conditioning...she's programmed not to experience fear in combat...so she may not have to ability to overcome those silly irrational fears that she experiences when the battle-drugs are not flowing through her veins.

Hence; though Henrietta might storm a hundred Padania safehouses in her lifetime she'd never outgrow the fear that a monster is hiding in her closet.

Thoughts anyone?

Professor Voodoo wrote:Thoughts anyone?

Love it.

I can't think of a phobia for Jay...

Professor Voodoo wrote:It's the irrational phobias that I consider the most useful (and comical) when it comes to character building.

Kara is afraid of spiders, Noel's terrified of ghosts, Allison does not like big trucks...personally I made Marisa afraid of nuns. Giving your character a humorous phobia (and a background story for why) is something I'd recommend to anyone building an OC.

To be honest, I've got a love-hate relationship with the "irrational phobia"... though to be honest I think that's mostly because 95% of the time it's done extremely poorly. The phobia winds up feeling like something that's been tacked on the end to make sure that that character has some weakness rather than having any real relevance. It's like someone's got one of those cookie cutter "describe your OC" sheets, come to the "what are they afraid of" box and slammed in whatever first popped into their heads:

"Oh, umm... yeah... they're, umm, they're afraid of the dark!"

How does this matter, and why do I, as the reader, care?

So, looked at from that perspective I guess it's not so much the irrational phobia I have issues with, I just wish that (like most things) people would put some thought into it first.

As you've probably guessed from the above, Monty doesn't have an irrational phobia yet. It is something though that I'm, if not actively working on, then at least mulling over. My leaning right now is toward something of a medical nature (needles perhapse). It's no secret that she doesn't get along with the medical staff, so in some ways it would be fitting.

Professor Voodoo wrote:It also occurs to me that a GsG cyborg might be more prone to
irrational fears than even her normal coevals. People learn to overcome
fear by experiencing & facing it. An agency cyborg's fear response
is altered by conditioning...she's programmed not to experience fear in
combat...so she may not have to ability to overcome those silly
irrational fears that she experiences when the battle-drugs are not
flowing through her veins.

Hence; though Henrietta might storm a
hundred Padania safehouses in her lifetime she'd never outgrow the fear
that a monster is hiding in her closet.

Thoughts anyone?

It's an interesting take that's for sure, and I like it. It also plays neatly to GSGs sometimes "guns and butter" themes. I could almost see the doctors actually tailoring the conditioning to have that effect as well. I mean, you can't have the cyborgs going to full combat mode everytime the cuboard creaks. Otherwise the SWA's furniture bill would almost equal it's car repairs bill

Jacen Starslayer wrote:I can't think of a phobia for Jay...

Um...Allison in a bad mood?

Jay seems like a rustic guy, more comfortable alone in the woods than in a hectic, noisy city. While it doesn't qualify as a full blown phobia I imagine he'd be rather uneasy in large crowds. Of course his "big Sis" Priscilla would be oblivious to this and drag him to all the most popular boutiques in Milan & Rome.

Rico: Don't worry Jay...I'll protect you!

Jay: Eh, thanks. (God this is embarassing...Sis using me as a dress-up doll and an 11 year old playing bodyguard)

Alfisti wrote: To be honest, I've got a love-hate relationship with the "irrational phobia"... though to be honest I think that's mostly because 95% of the time it's done extremely poorly. The phobia winds up feeling like something that's been tacked on the end to make sure that that character has some weakness rather than having any real relevance. It's like someone's got one of those cookie cutter "describe your OC" sheets, come to the "what are they afraid of" box and slammed in whatever first popped into their heads:

Good point...perhaps I'm attached to the idea because I don't care for characters that have no weaknesses. It's true, the phobia must have relevence to the character, as well as to the situation being written. In that respect I think MP5 has done a very good job making Allison afraid of lorries...it has genuine relevence to her former self (who "died" when hit by a truck) and provides a genuine obstacle to overcome (rather than just avoid)since her primary tasking is driving.

As you've probably guessed from the above, Monty doesn't have an irrational phobia yet.

The idea doesn't really fit her persona. If Monty had a hang-up I'd expect her to be annoyed with herself and attack it head-on...or perhaps deny it and bury it as deep inside her psyche as possible.

My leaning right now is toward something of a medical nature (needles perhapse).

She'd have that in common with Marisa...although Mari's feelings toward needles are more of violent hatred since her real mother (whom she does not remember of course) was a heroin junkie.
I dare say none of the girls enjoy getting shots.

I could almost see the doctors actually tailoring the conditioning to have that effect as well.

Hmmm...hadn't thought of it as intentional. Supporting your point; the engineers probably don't want the cyborgs to lose a respectful fear of their handlers' either.

Professor Voodoo wrote:

Alfisti wrote:As you've probably guessed from the above, Monty doesn't have an irrational phobia yet.

The idea doesn't really fit her persona. If Monty had a hang-up I'd expect her to be annoyed with herself and attack it head-on...or perhaps deny it and bury it as deep inside her psyche as possible.

Pretty much... but the fear itself and how someone deals with it are two different things. Not every arachnaphobe's immediate reaction to spiders is to run away screaming. In Monty's case she's also under pressure from her own self image as the level-headed/competent one. So "grit her teeth and ignore it" is probably the most likely reaction.

Professor Voodoo wrote:

Alfisti wrote: I could almost see the doctors actually tailoring the conditioning to have that effect as well.

Hmmm...hadn't thought of it as intentional. Supporting your point; the engineers probably don't want the cyborgs to lose a respectful fear of their handlers' either.

Attacking it from the other direction: it would help cement the cyborg/handler bond: if a cyborg gets scared in the night, who does she run to?

Alfisti wrote:Pretty much... but the fear itself and how someone deals with it are two different things. Not every arachnaphobe's immediate reaction to spiders is to run away screaming.

In Kara's case...

Seriously, they creep her out, but she'd power through it on a mission...

...then hug the shit out of Michele later.

Alfisti wrote:Attacking it from the other direction: it would help cement the cyborg/handler bond: if a cyborg gets scared in the night, who does she run to?

Professor Voodoo wrote:

My leaning right now is toward something of a medical nature (needles perhapse).

She'd have that in common with Marisa...although Mari's feelings toward needles are more of violent hatred since her real mother (whom she does not remember of course) was a heroin junkie.
I dare say none of the girls enjoy getting shots.

But this was Angie during her transformation stage. In V5, when she needed a shot, though she going through withdrawal, she took the shot more easier.

Professor Voodoo wrote:

I could almost see the doctors actually tailoring the conditioning to have that effect as well.

Hmmm...hadn't thought of it as intentional. Supporting your point; the engineers probably don't want the cyborgs to lose a respectful fear of their handlers' either.

Explain Elsa....
Actually, this can be explained away by saying that the girls get a conditioning upgrade to fix this...

Alfisti wrote:To be honest, I've got a love-hate relationship with the "irrational phobia"... though to be honest I think that's mostly because 95% of the time it's done extremely poorly. The phobia winds up feeling like something that's been tacked on the end to make sure that that character has some weakness rather than having any real relevance. It's like someone's got one of those cookie cutter "describe your OC" sheets, come to the "what are they afraid of" box and slammed in whatever first popped into their heads:

"Oh, umm... yeah... they're, umm, they're afraid of the dark!"

How does this matter, and why do I, as the reader, care?

A lot of folks feel that as long as they tack on some cute little fear or weakness to their OC it automatically gives them Mary/Marty immunity. And in those cases, as Alfisti said, they are usually irrelevant. But what really bugs me is when they are given ‘cool’ weaknesses like, “He’s a loose cannon.” or “She likes killing too much.” or “He’s just too independent for his own good.”

As for Britney, her weakness is that she’s a complete fuck-up. And that’s what B&B is all about – Britney fucking up.

ElfenMagix wrote:
Explain Elsa....
Actually, this can be explained away by saying that the girls get a conditioning upgrade to fix this...

Good point, Elsa's case is a valid part of this discussion.

I venture that Elsa did face her greatest fear...that Lauro did not love her...and found it to be true. Her entire existance was anchored on the possibility thast he could love her, but once she accepted that this was never going to happen nothing else, including fear of anger from her handler or the agency meant anything anymore.

All the other cyborgs fear losing the love of their handlers...but knowing she didn't have that Elsa had nothing left to lose.

I think these two scenes from Chapter 5 say a lot about that...

Danjo3 wrote: A lot of folks feel that as long as they tack on some cute little fear or weakness to their OC it automatically gives them Mary/Marty immunity. And in those cases, as Alfisti said, they are usually irrelevant. But what really bugs me is when they are given ‘cool’ weaknesses like, “He’s a loose cannon.” or “She likes killing too much.” or “He’s just too independent for his own good.”

Excellent point; I've been trying to find a way of saying that as well but you just put it across far more succinctly than I could.

ElfenMagix wrote:Explain Elsa....
Actually, this can be explained away by saying that the girls get a conditioning upgrade to fix this...

Professor Voodoo wrote:I venture that Elsa did face her greatest fear...that Lauro did
not love her...and found it to be true. Her entire existance was
anchored on the possibility thast he could love her, but once she
accepted that this was never going to happen nothing else, including
fear of anger from her handler or the agency meant anything anymore.

All the other cyborgs fear losing the love of their handlers...but knowing she didn't have that Elsa had nothing left to lose.

Honestly I tend to view the conditioning as a work in progress and still a bit glitchy. So while the doctors may aim for a specific effect, they don't always get it. Results are probably able to be predicted 90% of the time, however different stress situations or slightly different brain physiology and so on could garner different responses. Hence Elsa, pushed to the limits of what her conditioning could cope with, finally cracks...

...after which, yes, most likely the development team probably scrambled to patch the other girls.

Alfisti wrote: Honestly I tend to view the conditioning as a work in progress and still a bit glitchy. So while the doctors may aim for a specific effect, they don't always get it.

I'm sure you're right...so often is the case with any cutting edge technology.

...after which, yes, most likely the development team probably scrambled to patch the other girls.

Assuming Jean & Lorenzo figured out why Elsa acted (rather than just writing it off as a conditioning error); I'd also conjecture that the handlers all got an urgent memo in their in-box as well. It is highly recommended that you spend more time with your cyborgs...note attached book of coupons that can be redeemed at the gelato stand in the Piazza di Spagna.

[Priscilla drags Jay to a gelato stand, Rico follows.]
Jay: What the hell is this? Can't we just get a burger and fries?
Priscilla: But all the girls like the gelato, right Rico.
[Rico turns to them and smiles]
Rico: Henrietta swears by the gelato from this stand.
Jay: I'd still rather have a burger and fries.

Danjo3 wrote:A lot of folks feel that as long as they tack on some cute little fear or weakness to their OC it automatically gives them Mary/Marty immunity. And in those cases, as Alfisti said, they are usually irrelevant. But what really bugs me is when they are given ‘cool’ weaknesses like, “He’s a loose cannon.” or “She likes killing too much.” or “He’s just too independent for his own good.”

As for Britney, her weakness is that she’s a complete fuck-up. And that’s what B&B is all about – Britney fucking up.

MY OCs learned a long time ago on not to let their fears get the better of them so they would still be functional to the end of the mission; there is always room for crying when all is said and done.

Rachel's fear is of being sexually attacked again, but as a killer-tot-cyborg, this point is all but moot. Francesca's fear is of losing her handler, but getting her to operate independently is putting that fear to rest. Juanita's fear is not being loved, like Elsa but Juanita knows that with the situation she is in, she can only ask for and get what little she can. Fernando's fears? He had them surgically removed after his wife funeral because they got in the way with everything else.

In the end, they are still, as Danjo says it, Fuck ups. Fuck ups with mega loads of luck up the wazoo who may care for each other just a bit too much!

Professor Voodoo wrote:

Alfisti wrote: Honestly I tend to view the conditioning as a work in progress and still a bit glitchy. So while the doctors may aim for a specific effect, they don't always get it.

I'm sure you're right...so often is the case with any cutting edge technology.

...after which, yes, most likely the development team probably scrambled to patch the other girls.

Assuming Jean & Lorenzo figured out why Elsa acted (rather than just writing it off as a conditioning error); I'd also conjecture that the handlers all got an urgent memo in their in-box as well. It is highly recommended that you spend more time with your cyborgs...note attached book of coupons that can be redeemed at the gelato stand in the Piazza di Spagna.

Lorenzo: I just made the Gelato Cart guy as a Support Operative under Ferro. Anytime your killer cyborg tots need a little something to make them happy, go see him for services to rendered.
Jean: That sounds good.
Lorenzo: By the way, to get services rendered, you have to identify yourself. The pass phrase is "My name is Lorenzo Di Sica and this is my girl Elsa."

---

Priscilla finally makes it to the Gelato cart by the Piazza di Spagna, dragging Jay behind her and places him in front of her. Rico stays a step behind them.

Priscilla: My name is Lorenzo Di Sica and this is my girl Elsa.

The gelato cart give gives Jay a look.

Gelato Cart Guy: Yeah right. At least the soccer team that was here a 1/2 hour ago was all girls!

A lot of folks feel that as long as they tack on some cute little fear or weakness to their OC it automatically gives them Mary/Marty immunity. And in those cases, as Alfisti said, they are usually irrelevant. But what really bugs me is when they are given ‘cool’ weaknesses like, “He’s a loose cannon.” or “She likes killing too much.” or “He’s just too independent for his own good.”

mmm... I understand the sentiment, but really I'm wary of giving cyborgs flaws for the sake of appearing even-handed. This isn't Starcraft, there aren't going to be legions of powergamers filling forums with abuse about the balance and demanding a Blue Response. A cyborg might have an odious personality, but in battle at least she should be superior. Having a cyborg suddenly aim five feet to left of everything if it happens to be a Wednesday defeats the point of a $200M superhuman - it'd be like designing a tank with all of the crew positions on the outside of the hull.

Robert Frazer wrote:A cyborg might have an odious personality, but in battle at least she should be superior. Having a cyborg suddenly aim five feet to left of everything if it happens to be a Wednesday defeats the point of a $200M superhuman - it'd be like designing a tank with all of the crew positions on the outside of the hull.

Well the Italians already manage to make cars that randomly catch fire if it's full moon on a wet sunday (there's a reason I keep a fire-extinguisher bolted into the passenger footwell) so...

I think in terms of the cyborgs' combat abilities, strengths and flaws, we tend to measure them in relation to other cyborgs (yes, there's always going to be stand-out humans, like Pino, but I'm talking generalities). So even a cyborg who's only fair to middling at something is still pretty damn good by "regular" standards. More to the point though, while they have cybernetic, super solider bodies, encycolpedic knowledge of weapons and tactics and so on, their brains are still all squishy and biological, with all the pros and cons that brings (and to me at least, the idea that mentally they're still human is one of the cornerstones of the series). Because of that, yes there will always be those cyborgs who are generally better or generally poorer at things or are naturals at stuff. No-one's good at everything though, and in the case of the cyborgs I think a lot of that falls to training. An encyclopedic knowledge of firearms will tell you where the safety is and which end to hold but it won't make you good with a particular weapon without practice. It won't garner those little instinctive reflex actions that make you an expert with something. In the same manner you can know everything there is to know about cars, but that won't make you a good driver without practice. Or a good writer without sitting down and actually hashing out some words.

Take Monty for example: her strengths lie in intelligence, espionage, stealth and various forms of crime. Basically the stuff that she does day to day and she's damn good at them. However if you dropped her onto the room-clearing exercise or into a firefight then she's going to be pretty average (by cyborg standards). Same goes for firearms training, while she's deadly accurate with the PPK Monty lacks the wide firearms familiarity that the other girls seem to have. Again it's by virtue of not having a chance to train.

And then of course there's her social issues.

The flip side of the coin is that, if you know what your strengths are you can play to them. So in the limited time that Monty's back at the SWA and can get in some range time she'll concentrate on keeping up to standard with her PPK (maybe put a mag or two through a Skorpion or AK47... the things she encounters on a more regular basis) rather than trying to become an expert on everything. It simply suits her role better.

One day this'll of course probably come back to bite her in the arse.

Kara is average with a weapon (I assume Triela is the ace), which is why she uses a modular system like the HK XM8 as it helps reinforce her familiarity.

Same with driving. She's helped in no small part by having an exotic car with exotic performance at her command.

In agreeing with Alfisti, This is why I keep my little team limited. Types of hand guns- 1 (1911 series) for most, 2 for Fernando and Rachel (1911 and the .32NAA). Long arms? None for most, only Rachel and Fernando trained on them but Fernando does not expect to use them as he stated tot he SWA that he would not be doing sniping missions nor would anyone else in his team. Martial Arts varies. Fernando knows 4 styles and is a black belt in 2, and knows several styles of sword fighting. Along with Gymnastics, he mixes them into his own style of fighting. Rachel knows what her father taught her- basic Karate and judo moves with emphasis on killing and crippling blows (same stuff used in anti-rape defense courses). She also mixes gymnastics with her moves as well. Juanita knows basic Judo and Karate from what the agency and Fernando has taught her but nothing more and she is not a fighter. Francesca- who knows what Felix taught her. But its advanced more than just ripping off limbs and beating in heads with the limb as a club.

All their styles are very different but they mesh together nicely. Rachel is not a room clearer but that's basically her style, run in and pick off targets. Fernando tends to be similar since he learned in the streets of NYC to shoot first and ask questions never. Juanita will (usually) hide behind Fernando (or some other large object) and shoot at anything that moves. Francesca was taught to charge in and shoot at what she can pick off, which is why she got hit in UN Resolution. Fernando & Juanita are basically in intelligence, espionage and infiltration agents; and have been caught with their pants down on missions because of bad intell on the agency part. Though Francesca was trained in espionage and infiltration, she never used those skills until recently, and she was taught long ago by Felix. Rachel is not trained, and thus remains silently at Fernando's side until he tells her to go and kill.

Out of all the girls out there, Francesca was one of the first to live her fear of losing her handler on a mission. In fact she had front row tickets in Section C for it. With repressed memories and bringing them out, Francesca now understands that in the circumstances of her Handler's murder, there was nothing she could have done and she is lucky to be alive herself. If the bullet would have been off 6 inches to the left, it would have been Francesca that would have gotten the bullet in the back of the head and not Felix.

Felix was an interesting character. Similar to Fernando but some 15 years older and some 10 years in the past. He does not have the luck or genetic quirks Fernando has and lastly, was on the verge of burnout from his Spanish Agency denial of doing whats right. Though the SWA had sparked his interest, he was getting bored with the job of supervising others, esp. Jean who he kept butting heads with. His relationship was probably the only saving grace he had for the SWA. he did his best in training Francesca but was leery of what the SWA Med Techs were dong to her. In the least, they made an interesting team.

Jacen Starslayer wrote:
Jay: I'd still rather have a burger and fries.

I imagine that whenever Fernando & his merry band is "home" at the compound on Fridays he makes a tradition of lighting up the charcoal pit and grilling for lunch...something the rest of Sectio 2 looks forward to.

Jay: (watching Fernando work with wide eyes) Master...teach me your secrets...

Fernando: Aww Jay...come on man...don't I have a big enough entourage already? I can't take on one more student!

Rico: (holding her plate) Two more Mr. G...I come with him!

Robert Frazer wrote:This isn't Starcraft, there aren't going to be legions of powergamers filling forums with abuse about the balance and demanding a Blue Response.

Well, that was confusing, but I think I get the idea (I fail at videogame lingo). Writers are certainly under no obligation to provide X number of strengths and X number of weaknesses to make their character believeable, but at the same time relevant foibles make for an interesting story, and provide obstacles for a character to overcome as he or she develops.
You've already done a good job of this with both Avise & Agapita, proven by the fact that plenty of readers eagerly wait to see where the next step in their personal journey's will take them.

Having a cyborg suddenly aim five feet to left of everything if it happens to be a Wednesday defeats the point of a $200M superhuman

That seems a rather arbitrary weakness (yes, I understand you're going for hyperbole) but if a writer can concoct a relevant reason why the cyborg begins losing her aim I'd accept it.

Funny how your cost estimates for a brand-new cyborg keep creeping up...100 million in Lamb & Tyger...158 million for Agapita in Occupational Hazards...now 200 million? No wonder the SWA can't get new toner cartriges for the fax machine!

Alfisti wrote:Take Monty for example:... while she's deadly accurate with the PPK Monty lacks the wide firearms familiarity that the other girls seem to have.

Kiskaloo wrote:Kara is average with a weapon (I assume Triela is the ace), which is why she uses a modular system like the HK XM8 as it helps reinforce her familiarity.

ElfenMagix wrote:I keep my little team limited. Types of hand guns- 1 (1911 series) for most, 2 for Fernando and Rachel (1911 and the .32NAA). Long arms? None for most, only Rachel and Fernando trained on them

While for some exotic firearms are a principle draw of GsG it seems to me that the amount of weaponry detail in a given story is directly proportional to the author's interest in the subject.

I fall into the group that doesn't tend to include much detail about armament...I'll mention something if it appears in canon, or in the OC works of an author whose character I'm borrowing, but as far as my own fratello goes; they carry what's convenient.

Elio gave Marisa a Beretta 92 because the armoury had stacks of them available, and when he had to replace his own side-arm he just grabbed another one for himself. As long as it's reliable, easy to get ammo for and shoots reasonably straight my two OC's really don't care what they use.

I think weaknesses that impact a cyborgs work performance are much more interesting then those that only make an appearance during their off time. It makes the character more believable and relatable. Take Triela for example. When it comes to CQB, she’s the best there is, yet her over confidence caused her to get her ass kicked twice (and almost killed). It’s Triela’s flaws, more then anything else, that endear her to the fandom. Let’s face it; it’s hard to relate to little miss super-cyborg who’s only hang up is having to sleep with a night light. Bottom line – it’s extremely difficult for a reader to care about a Mary Sue. It’s like cheering on a runner in a one man race. You know he’s going to win from the very start, so what’s the point?

Professor Voodoo wrote:While for some exotic firearms are a principle draw of GsG it seems to me that the amount of weaponry detail in a given story is directly proportional to the author's interest in the subject.

I fall into the group that doesn't tend to include much detail about armament...I'll mention something if it appears in canon, or in the OC works of an author whose character I'm borrowing, but as far as my own fratello goes; they carry what's convenient.

Elio gave Marisa a Beretta 92 because the armoury had stacks of them available, and when he had to replace his own side-arm he just grabbed another one for himself. As long as it's reliable, easy to get ammo for and shoots reasonably straight my two OC's really don't care what they use.

I was under the impression that Mari kinda liked the 92 because it was large and loud...

I used to be big into guns (MP5 can probably attest to this), but not so much anymore. My own interest as of now I'd best describe as "passing": I look up and learn things out of curiosity, but at the end of the day I don't really care. My major reason for investigating weapons now is from a character building standpoint; what does this gun (and how the owner uses it and interacts with it) say about the character. It's the same philosophy I apply to clothes, cars, watches and so on.

Which also gives the exception to the rule: I will geek about weapons my characters use. I did a lot of reading before settleing on Monty's PPK, and then my immediate reaction after settling on it was to go and attemt to learn everything there is to know about PPKs (short of actually getting one to play with... thanks Australian gun laws). That in part stems from doing comics rather than writing. I can't write "she drew her pistol and flicked off the safety". I actually need to be able to show, with resonable accuracy, how the safety is operated.

Professor Voodoo wrote:While for some exotic firearms are a principle draw of GsG it seems to me that the amount of weaponry detail in a given story is directly proportional to the author's interest in the subject.

I fall into the group that doesn't tend to include much detail about armament...I'll mention something if it appears in canon, or in the OC works of an author whose character I'm borrowing, but as far as my own fratello goes; they carry what's convenient.

Elio gave Marisa a Beretta 92 because the armoury had stacks of them available, and when he had to replace his own side-arm he just grabbed another one for himself. As long as it's reliable, easy to get ammo for and shoots reasonably straight my two OC's really don't care what they use.

Strangely, the weapons used by my OCs are the same weapons I have used at one time or another, excluding the number of revolvers and other weapons I do not list. In short, I kept the number of weapons down to a minimum. I also kept the most reliable and abundant around, with the exception of the .32NAA which is more of an exotic pocket gun rather than a standard.

Ammo is another issue to deal with. I basically took the Duex Ex Machina route with Leon sending Fernando the special ammo the .32NAA uses and anything else Fernando's team needs.

Professor Voodoo wrote:Elio gave Marisa a Beretta 92 because the armoury had stacks of them available, and when he had to replace his own side-arm he just grabbed another one for himself. As long as it's reliable, easy to get ammo for and shoots reasonably straight my two OC's really don't care what they use.

A man after my own heart.

What’s this? I’m getting a vision. I see… an Elio and Marisa guest appearance.

Alfisti wrote:I was under the impression that Mari kinda liked the 92 because it was large and loud...

You have a point...given her personality she might have loved a .50 caliber Israeli hand-cannon even more, but the 92 is what her handler gave her on "wake-up day" so she's attached to it, a trait I see in all the girls.

That said, she still considers a hand-to-hand victory worth 3 firearm kills.

That in part stems from doing comics rather than writing. I can't write "she drew her pistol and flicked off the safety". I actually need to be able to show, with resonable accuracy, how the safety is operated.

An attention to detail we all appreciate. If you draw the weapons half as accurately as you did that dive helmet you have achieved epic win.

ElfenMagix wrote:Strangely, the weapons used by my OCs are the same weapons I have used at one time or another,

That's not strange at all. More than any other author here you draw from your own life and real people you know. There's something to be said for personal experience.

Danjo3 wrote:I see… an Elio and Marisa guest appearance.

Be my guest...as I said on Elfen's wiki I consider them "public property." I've even intergrated elements other writers have attributed to them into my own tales.

Elio: Voodoo what the bloody hell are you doing!? I don't want Marisa learning about the kind of things Britney does!

Marisa: What kind of things?