Re: We have cyborg girls... err.. why not cyborg boys?

by Adam Wed 5 May 2010 - 19:00

In chapter 2, while Rico is talking to Emilio, she thinks to herself:

We have cyborg girls... err.. why not cyborg boys? - Page 2 I82887_gsgrico

Assuming the translation is accurate; this suggests that she does not have much else to base the behavior of boys on. While it is possible that they exist, I would hypothesize that they don't interact with the gunslinger girls. Considering the implied curiosity of Rico (from this statement and others later in the chapter) I would say that their separation is not self imposed (if they exist at all).

by **ElfenMagix** Wed 5 May 2010 - 19:14

Adam wrote:In chapter 2, while Rico is talking to Emilio, she thinks to herself:

Assuming the translation is accurate; this suggests that she does not have much else to base the behavior of boys on. ...

Think about this: Rico was in a hospital bed in 11 of her 13 years (based on the anime and still 11 out of 11.5 in the anime), and what little she knows of boys was learned in that hospital bed!

by **Nachtsider** Wed 5 May 2010 - 20:40

She probably still thinks babies come with the stork or from cabbage patches, and will beat anybody who says otherwise to a bloody pulp.

by **Tommygunner70** Thu 6 May 2010 - 2:26

Nachtsider wrote:She probably still thinks babies come with the stork or from cabbage patches, and will beat anybody who says otherwise to a bloody pulp.

This, +1!

by Kalshion Thu 6 May 2010 - 4:16

The other idea I had was that if they do exist, it's possible they are used for other things. Such as for more muscle power missions, though I do say that Rico does have a few mean punches of her own (recall the episode in S2 where she was beating up a Padania terrorist when they found Syntax)

I would NOT want to be on the recieving end of those punches ^.^;;;

by KodokuRyuu Thu 6 May 2010 - 4:24

There artificial muscles determine their strength, so a boy version would not be any stronger.

by **Tommygunner70** Thu 6 May 2010 - 4:43

Maybe so, but it is more normal for a boy to have more muscle mass then a girl. Even with the cybernetics/synthetics, the rule of "the larger the muscle the greater the strength" has to apply in some fashion.

by Kalshion Thu 6 May 2010 - 12:46

True, and with the reinforced bone-structure they get. That just makes me wonder, when Rico is beating up a poor sob, how much damage is she truly causing to the man? I know it's not related to this topic, but I'm curious.

by **ElfenMagix** Thu 6 May 2010 - 17:35

Kalshion wrote:True, and with the reinforced bone-structure they get. That just makes me wonder, when Rico is beating up a poor sob, how much damage is she truly causing to the man? I know it's not related to this topic, but I'm curious.

I'll consider that she is hitting with the force to break a karate board. But unlike the board, the face is pliable. Thus some of the force is being absorbed by the face. But bones are being broken- cheek bones, upper mandible, eye socket... poor guy is going to look like he was on the (wrong) recieving end of a gang robbing ritual...

by **boomer_gonz** Thu 6 May 2010 - 17:57

This may be irrelevant, but aside from the obvious plot device therein(as impeccably explained by Uncle Bob); I wrote the lack of boy's as being the failure of them (or one to be exact) in the past.

by Danjo3 Fri 7 May 2010 - 3:38

KodokuRyuu wrote:There artificial muscles determine their strength, so a boy version would not be any stronger.

Excellent point.

by **ElfenMagix** Fri 7 May 2010 - 19:15

boomer_gonz wrote:This may be irrelevant, but aside from the obvious plot device therein(as impeccably explained by Uncle Bob); I wrote the lack of boy's as being the failure of them (or one to be exact) in the past.

As I see it, it never was the issue with the boy(s), but the handler(s) and their brain washing supervisor Jean. The man has a black thumb when it comes to things like this...

by Triela Hilshire Fri 7 May 2010 - 20:14

My own theory kind of goes along with the whole appearance. Say for instance Rico's meeting with the boy at the hotel, if the hotel manager had come out instead he/she would've assumed the boy was after stuff in the trash. As opposed to a girl the manager would ask if they were lost instead of going for the broom. A young girl could get away with more than a young boy would.

by Jacen Starslayer Fri 7 May 2010 - 20:21

Agreed.

by MadHatChemist Fri 7 May 2010 - 20:23

Triela Hilshire wrote:My own theory kind of goes along with the whole appearance. Say for instance Rico's meeting with the boy at the hotel, if the hotel manager had come out instead he/she would've assumed the boy was after stuff in the trash. As opposed to a girl the manager would ask if they were lost instead of going for the broom. A young girl could get away with more than a young boy would.

An added bonus, assuming most of Padina, &c. are male, is that a grown man is less likely to harm or threaten a little girl then a little boy. Also, a man would be more likely to be more aggressive and less foregiving against a boy then with a girl.

by **ElfenMagix** Fri 7 May 2010 - 20:41

MadHatChemist wrote:An added bonus, assuming most of Padina, &c. are male, is that a grown man is less likely to harm or threaten a little girl then a little boy. Also, a man would be more likely to be more aggressive and less foregiving against a boy then with a girl.

Assault and rape of said girl before putting a bullet into her head not less forgiving?
Sure, they could rape the boy too... who knows with these Padania freaks...

by Jacen Starslayer Fri 7 May 2010 - 20:43

[shudders]

by japanwanderer Fri 7 May 2010 - 21:07

well may this is nothing, but just building on some of the other theories you've talked about, perhaps only younger girls would have the kind of dependence and emotional avenues for the conditioning to work properly, which really ties into the loli. I would think for it to work on boys it would have to be adjusted to work for a guys mind, needing less of the dependence thing, but then again there was Pinoccio . . .

by Five_X Fri 7 May 2010 - 21:14

There's also the possibility that girls are easier to make cute, especially considering the demographic. I mean, "Henry"? Bleh. Though then her "man-hands" nickname would be more literal.

by **Tommygunner70** Sat 8 May 2010 - 0:15

ElfenMagix wrote:
Assault and rape of said girl before putting a bullet into her head not less forgiving?
Sure, they could rape the boy too... who knows with these Padania freaks...

Heck, Padania isn't only males, there are Female terrorists too. A female could be quite capable of rape, its just less heard of/less believe worthy seeing as a boy has to get it up before it can be done, a girl however...

About that BTW: As a guy going to the police saying "I've been raped by a group women" he'll get laughed at flat out. if its a women saying she's been raped by a group of men, then its something to write reports about...

Same reason why only male pedophiles are heard of, Female pedophiles not so much.

by Professor Voodoo Sat 8 May 2010 - 0:34

Tommygunner70 wrote:Heck, Padania isn't only males, there are Female terrorists too. A female could be quite capable of rape,

Stefano: Wait a minute, we could possibly be raped by female Padania agents?

Paolo: By hot female Padania agents?

Stefano: This sounds like dangerous duty...I hearby volunteer for it.

Paolo: Too dangerous...I can't let you take the risk, buddy. I volunteer for the mission!

Stefano: My ass you do...it's my mission! (a fist-fight/wrestling match breaks out)

Jean: Do those idiots realize there is no such mission?

Ferro: Just let them have at it. Maybe they'll burn off some energy and quit annoying us.

by **Tommygunner70** Sat 8 May 2010 - 0:50

Ronaldo: Too bad dickhead and dickhead don't realize that said female padania agent is more likely to shoot them then fuck them. Oh hey, most padania agents work together with fellow Male agents.

by Danjo3 Sat 8 May 2010 - 1:52

I can see Stefano and Palo catching Franca and training their weapons on her:

Stefano: You’re under arrest bitch!

Franca: Can’t we talk about this?

Palo: Save you is breath!

Franca: Alright then…

She unbuttons her shirt and bares her breasts. The two boys automatically drop their guns.

Stefano/Palo: WE SURRENDER!!

by Professor Voodoo Sat 8 May 2010 - 2:35

Danjo3 wrote:I can see Stefano and Palo catching Franca and training their weapons on her:

And that, ladies & gentlemen, is the reason we don't have male cyborgs.

Jay: Hey, that's not fair, the girls do it too...Triela got all moon-eyed over Pinocchio! (at least in the anime)

Triela: (furious) Hey! Who told you that!?

Claes peeks up from her book with a shit-eating grin on her face.

by **boomer_gonz** Sat 8 May 2010 - 7:38

Professor Voodoo wrote:
Claes peeks up from her book with a shit-eating grin on her face.

by Alfisti Sat 8 May 2010 - 8:08

japanwanderer wrote:well may this is nothing, but just building on some of the other theories you've talked about, perhaps only younger girls would have the kind of dependence and emotional avenues for the conditioning to work properly, which really ties into the loli. I would think for it to work on boys it would have to be adjusted to work for a guys mind, needing less of the dependence thing, but then again there was Pinoccio . . .

I think it is an interesting point to raise though, and in a way builds particularly on what Robert said in terms of the stereotypical gender roles for boys and girls. Young girls are seen to be more emotional and attached than boys of the same age are... they are expected to be out rough housing and starting to show the first signs of rebellion around 10. I could see that making the attachment conditioning easier to use on girls than boys. I don't think it's really a black and white subject though, just the "infinate shades of grey" that everyone talks about. Maybe it was a factor in the medical staff's thinking... I'm sure there's plenty of papers out there on emotional attachment and perhaps they thought they'd stand a better chance on average with girls.

Which would kind of explain Pino who just didn't hit the average. Also he's sort of special circuistances... at least compared to your normal kid.

by **ElfenMagix** Sat 8 May 2010 - 9:54

Though I agree with Alfisti, this much I know. Separate a boy from a group and he will attach himself to an authority figure and do what he can to make that person happy. Keep him with a group of other boys, he is competition to make a notch for himself within the group and hell with what authority figures have to say. Their priorities for said authority figures plummets. Thus is this a partial reason for their failure, and why Pino did so well.

by Five_X Sat 8 May 2010 - 12:39

*cough*LordOfTheFlies*cough*

Yeah, that reasoning is pretty sound. One boy might work. More would just create trouble. So why go to the extent of making exactly one boy into a cyborg when you can make several more girls?

by taraswizard Sat 19 Jun 2010 - 18:14

I asked nearly the same question months ago on LJ's Gunslinger Girls community. The answer there was nearly like the ones given here, that girls are more disarming to their potential targets and draw less attention to their actions making them a little more stealthy. Additionally, when the answer was given on LJ the repliers said their answers were based on the manga.

by ebitempura966 Sat 26 Jun 2010 - 1:09

grls are cute when handling their weapon Smile

]

by Jacen Starslayer Sat 26 Jun 2010 - 21:35

[Jay sits in a corner...]

Jay: Damn, I'll never show them that I'm useless at this rate.

[looks over at Danjo's OCs]

Jay: At least I'm not as pathetic as those guys...

by Danjo3 Sun 27 Jun 2010 - 1:52

Jacen Starslayer wrote:Jay: At least I'm not as pathetic as those guys...

Stefano: That’s true, but you’re still a girl-boy, so deal with it. We have cyborg girls... err.. why not cyborg boys? - Page 2 684325

by **ElfenMagix** Sun 27 Jun 2010 - 9:58

taraswizard wrote:I asked nearly the same question months ago on LJ's Gunslinger Girls community. The answer there was nearly like the ones given here, that girls are more disarming to their potential targets and draw less attention to their actions making them a little more stealthy. Additionally, when the answer was given on LJ the repliers said their answers were based on the manga.

Eh?
I dont know about the newbies here, but we old boys have had the Manga (up to ch70+), Anime and Video game to fall on for answers. We have scoured and dug so deeply for answers, some museums are coming to us to make a Prehistoric GsG Exhibit! Evil

Some of us have used this information in the creation of our own fanworks...

Danjo3 wrote:
Jacen Starslayer wrote:Jay: At least I'm not as pathetic as those guys...
Stefano: That’s true, but you’re still a girl-boy, so deal with it.

Rachel smacks Jay in the back of the head...

Jay: HEY!!!
Rachel: Why you are hanging out with these losers?
Stefano: Loser?!!
Rachel: Ah-Shuddup, before I enroll you to the Blessed Pope John XXIII School For Boys!!!

Stefano gulps.

Jay leans over to Stefano.

Jay (whispering): What's that about?
Stefano (whispering back): Rachel has a habit of shooting the boys from the Blessed Pope John XXIII School!!! She's the reason why they wont panty-raid the dorms anymore!!!

by Professor Voodoo Sun 27 Jun 2010 - 10:15

ElfenMagix wrote: Rachel smacks Jay in the back of the head...

Jay: HEY!!!
Rachel: Why you are hanging out with these losers?
Stefano: Loser?!!

Given Rachel's ambivalence toward her sister cyborgs I thought she might actually be complicit in some of the boys-borg's shenanigans...if only to torment the other girls.

by **ElfenMagix** Sun 27 Jun 2010 - 10:55

Professor Voodoo wrote:
ElfenMagix wrote: Rachel smacks Jay in the back of the head...

Jay: HEY!!!
Rachel: Why you are hanging out with these losers?
Stefano: Loser?!!
Given Rachel's ambivalence toward her sister cyborgs I thought she might actually be complicit in some of the boys-borg's shenanigans...if only to torment the other girls.

And you would be right. But at the same time, she would not like someone like Jay sink into the abyss with the rest of the girl-boys, damaging his reputation among the girls and 'becoming one of the boys...'

by Jacen Starslayer Sun 27 Jun 2010 - 11:05

Jay: I'm not hanging with them, they're just...around.
[Runs off to play Modern Warfare 2 on his 360]

by **ElfenMagix** Sun 27 Jun 2010 - 11:25

ElfenMagix wrote:
Professor Voodoo wrote:
ElfenMagix wrote: Rachel smacks Jay in the back of the head...

Jay: HEY!!!
Rachel: Why you are hanging out with these losers?
Stefano: Loser?!!
Given Rachel's ambivalence toward her sister cyborgs I thought she might actually be complicit in some of the boys-borg's shenanigans...if only to torment the other girls.

And you would be right. But at the same time, she would not like someone like Jay sink into the abyss with the rest of the girl-boys, damaging his reputation among the girls and 'becoming one of the boys...'

Before I forget, this would be against the canon girls, who through their little clique have given Rachel a very hard time in her early days. As with the OC girls/boys, things are different and more level; each relationship built based on what the two can share.

by Danjo3 Mon 28 Jun 2010 - 19:20

Jacen Starslayer wrote:Jay: I'm not hanging with them, they're just...around.

Good! Because we have men we’re interested in. Hear that girl-boy? MEN!

by mistersaxon Tue 29 Jun 2010 - 4:33

Hmm, to be serious here - the basis for selection of candidates is that they have experienced a significant trauma (to say the least) and either have no surviving family or are believed by said family to be dead or incapable. So far this can apply to boys as well as girls.

But girls internalise such trauma and are much more likely to develop a fugue state from it, whereas boys may suppress the memory but externalise their reaction as violent outbursts of temper, stubbornness and unwillingness to submit to authority (to be subjugate again). All these reactions (derived from testosterone for the most part) mean that in order for the conditioning process to be effective at all a boy candidate would require a great deal more of it, shortening their effective lifespan accordingly. And a boy who was NOT heavily conditioned would likely be very dangerous to their handler and colleagues unless handled with kid gloves (no pun intended).

All of which adds up to girls being better candidates for the process biologically as well as having the ability to rouse a protective instinct in their potential targets which is helped, we note, by being dressed "cutely" and presented in the semi-loli fashion we have come to recognise.

As a side note: the use of trauma to make the basis for mental conditioning bears a strong resemblance to the Project Monarch work undertaken by the British Government in the 1960's and 1970's except that MI6 felt it acceptable to create the trauma events themselves (the "primal" as it was known) and to do so to older, adult subjects. [See "Grey Men" and "Project Monarch" files for more information as to possible origins of the GSG project]

by Danjo3 Wed 30 Jun 2010 - 2:21

I still think it’s as simple as Yu liking the idea of little girls better. If asked, that’s probably the only reason he would have.

by Professor Voodoo Wed 30 Jun 2010 - 3:30

Danjo3 wrote:I still think it’s as simple as Yu liking the idea of little girls better. If asked, that’s probably the only reason he would have.

Well, I'm sure he also likes money as well. Girls do a better job of selling copies.

by Robert Frazer Wed 30 Jun 2010 - 6:19

That's a genuinely interesting perspective, mistersaxon - I'm not all that clued in on psychology myself, but I can see it working.

by Danjo3 Wed 30 Jun 2010 - 9:24

Professor Voodoo wrote:Well, I'm sure he also likes money as well. Girls do a better job of selling copies.

This is true. We have cyborg girls... err.. why not cyborg boys? - Page 2 735198

by xochequetsal Mon 8 Nov 2010 - 2:00

I think it may be because they would be harder to control. Also, boys with guns, way to cliche We have cyborg girls... err.. why not cyborg boys? - Page 2 423829

by Officer_Charon Mon 8 Nov 2010 - 2:21

xochequetsal wrote:I think it may be because they would be harder to control. Also, boys with guns, way to cliche

*cocks eyebrow* Haters gonna hate... Laughing

I think that, if given enough time to sift through the material and sit down long enough, one could theorize a reason why the conditioning would only work with girls, rather than boys. I mean, canonically that is; as previously stated, the concept of girls with guns is guaranteed to sell copies - all the more so if you ALSO cater to the lolicon market. *wry smile* The fact that the concept is relatively original and the story is well-written, for the most part helps majorly, too.

by **ElfenMagix** Mon 8 Nov 2010 - 3:04

Officer_Charon wrote:
xochequetsal wrote:I think it may be because they would be harder to control. Also, boys with guns, way to cliche

*cocks eyebrow* Haters gonna hate...

I think that, if given enough time to sift through the material and sit down long enough, one could theorize a reason why the conditioning would only work with girls, rather than boys. I mean, canonically that is; as previously stated, the concept of girls with guns is guaranteed to sell copies - all the more so if you ALSO cater to the lolicon market. *wry smile* The fact that the concept is relatively original and the story is well-written, for the most part helps majorly, too.

Nevermind the theories of selling the material and continue with the story line.
In V5 the Padania reporter showed Marco's ex-girlfriend a picture of what looks like a boy running and shooting a gun, speculating that its the government doing, even though history shows that the Mafia has been using child-assassins (mostly boys) to do some of the dirty work. Using girls would draw lesser attention than boys, while using younger children will draw less attention as well. Thus using young girls became the agency mantra.

Hell, as an example, in SWA Beginnings: Francesca, Francesca's first mission involved killing her target in the steps of the court house in front of a crowd of witnesses, reporters and body guards. No one cared about this little (10-ish yo) girl trying to get a close look at the subject of such media attention, not until she pulls out a gun and starts shooting at him. Since her red hair was dyed black and her bra padded, everyone thought afterwards that the shooter may have been a mafia midget assassin and any connection to the SWA was not even a concern.

by **Nachtsider** Mon 8 Nov 2010 - 3:41

We're after in-universe reasons here, people. Not real-life ones. I maintain that there is absolutely no conclusive/good/solid in-universe reason why male operatives should not exist.

Perhaps the more important question is this. If it were up to you, would you allow for the existence of cyborg boys?

Go go go.

by **ElfenMagix** Mon 8 Nov 2010 - 4:01

Well, there is already Boomer's Alpha, Danjo's Girl-Boys, and Jacen Starslayer's Jacen (Jay for short). All Boys and all testosterone laden and machismo as they can be. And you can only love them for it.

So boys, grab your balls and be proud that you are a boy! For without you, what would the girls do?

by Awinnell Mon 8 Nov 2010 - 12:44

ElfenMagix wrote:So boys, grab your balls and be proud that you are a boy! For without you, what would the girls do?

Les up ?

by **ElfenMagix** Mon 8 Nov 2010 - 12:57

Awinnell wrote:
ElfenMagix wrote:So boys, grab your balls and be proud that you are a boy! For without you, what would the girls do?

Les up ?

I doubt it, they got their handlers.
But who knows what happens behind closed dorm doors.

by FearTheLASERFACE Mon 8 Nov 2010 - 16:32

Its explained the conditioning works better on a girl.
In fact, because of that, my fanfic was actually originally meant to feature a male cyborg anti-villain who fought back against the conditioning and betrays the SWA General Sheperd/Makorav-style. Then I thought, "Nah."

In fact, quick plot summary:
SWA attacks a Padanian safehouse in the middle of I-don't-know-where, one cyborg injured. That fratello limps back to a heli for evac. Male cyborg appears on the heli, helps the cyborg up, then suddenly pulls magnum out of nowhere and shoots her in the face, and then her handler. Then gets back on heli, and leaves with fellow defectors.

by **Nachtsider** Mon 8 Nov 2010 - 17:19

FearTheLASERFACE wrote:Its explained the conditioning works better on a girl.

Where was this again?

by FearTheLASERFACE Mon 8 Nov 2010 - 18:53

Oh wait, nvm. It's just "child." I keep mixing the two up when I think about V1.

by **Nachtsider** Mon 8 Nov 2010 - 19:00

There we go.

by Danjo3 Wed 10 Nov 2010 - 3:28

ElfenMagix wrote:So boys, grab your balls and be proud that you are a boy! For without you, what would the girls do?

I’m sure Britney could give you some alternative solutions. just whistlin'

by Professor Voodoo Wed 10 Nov 2010 - 6:57

ElfenMagix wrote: For without you, what would the girls do?

Sounds like a reversal of the Maurice Chevalier line.

Oh god what have I done...I've revealed the horrible truth; I secretly enjoy the 1958 musical Gigi.

by **ElfenMagix** Wed 10 Nov 2010 - 11:41

by Danjo3 Thu 11 Nov 2010 - 2:26

Professor Voodoo wrote:Oh god what have I done...I've revealed the horrible truth; I secretly enjoy the 1958 musical Gigi.

We have cyborg girls... err.. why not cyborg boys? - Page 2 Skeleton+in+closet

Don’t worry Voodoo, we all have ‘em. Laughing

by sdp2501 Thu 30 Dec 2010 - 10:13

the SWA are pedos thats why episode 3 is a key example snipe

by Sponsored content