Re: Idea and concept generation

by **Nachtsider** Wed 14 Nov 2007 - 21:39

Elfen, I agree that communication is the key to sorting such quandaries out. Unfortunately, there are many people who just don't have the guts to sit down and rationally talk things over.

by **ElfenMagix** Wed 14 Nov 2007 - 21:50

Nachtsider wrote:Elfen, I agree that communication is the key to sorting such quandaries out. Unfortunately, there are many people who just don't have the guts to sit down and rationally talk things over.

That is why I have an Ex-From-Hell...

by Guest Wed 14 Nov 2007 - 23:26

ElfenMagix wrote:Confused emotions are one thing which can be dealt with by sitting down
and talking with the one the feelings are about. Executing what those
feelings are telling you to do maybe the biggest mistake anyone could
ever make without trying to figure out what those feelings are telling
you to do...

Yeah, Triela is doing everything she can to avoid the topic. From her fake reactions to things like Hillshire's statement "You would never betray me. And I would never betray you." to letting the whole subject slide with the evasive "We're fratello, we don't need to talk about love."

I can understand why she would be scared, though.

Oh, and Mimi says something similar: "Don't keep your feelings to yourself or you'll get hurt." The two possibilities are that either the person finds someone else or because you kept it in too long you'll end up acting irrationally at some moment and possibly screw everything up... or you'll just never actually talk it over and live the rest of your life tortured by that fact.

Now... I'll give LoC's image posting tutorial a try...

Idea and concept generation - Page 2 059qk7

Idea and concept generation - Page 2 059qk7

Success!

by **Nachtsider** Wed 14 Nov 2007 - 23:31

Just marvel at the quality of that scan.

You win, dude.

by **ElfenMagix** Wed 14 Nov 2007 - 23:47

Congrats, you won the door prize.
Now go collect your door!

by Danjo3 Thu 15 Nov 2007 - 1:57

I think Mimi is reading Triela like a book. She basically says, "You like him but are afraid to tell him, am I right?" Instead of simply saying no, she looks down and says, "No comment."

Later she tells Triela she should confess her true feelings for him. Again, no protest. She just gives that shy little smile.

by Guest Thu 15 Nov 2007 - 12:39

At first she wouldn't let Hillshire touch her and would pretend she felt nothing but anoyance for him. (rather tipical for a girl who loves her dad, but also wants to be independent and is sometimes embarassed by him) Aften the Pinochio thing she felt really guilty that she had failed him (obviously has very strong feelings for him). But, at the end of that, she let him hug her . Hard to say whether that was just a thing of the moment or a permament step forward.

The chemistry is different for the cyborgs than for humans. The distinction between sexual love and attachment may be blurred. Love is not something that just happens. There are things that inspire it and things that break it. If it is cared for two people can make it flare up and when neglected it will burn out. It's very possible that in which way it will go depends largely on how the cyborg and handler work out their relationship. Triela proubably feels something a hell of a lot stronger than just plain attachment, wheather its sexual attraction is left for debate. There is a whole chapter which emphesizes Triela having her period; i.e. being at a mature age. But, there is also a lot of reference to the father daughter relationship. So it can go both ways.

by **Nachtsider** Fri 16 Nov 2007 - 21:26

But anyway.

In keeping with the original intent of this thread, here are some 'Rogue Fratello' story ideas that anyone may use:

(1) In an attempt to have Section Two shut down, Chief Draghi pulls some strings that result in one or more fratello teams being framed for a crime (assasination, perhaps). Presently on the run, they not only have to contend with their former comrades who are hunting them down, but also work to clear their names.

(2) Raballo has survived the attempt on his life by the Agency, and is determined to put a stop to their racket. Now lying low, he contacts Claes, reminds her of who he is, and uses her as a spy to take the Agency down from within.

(3) A fratello team go AWOL. The handler in question has struck up a deal with terrorists - an obscenely large reward in exchange for their taking his cyborg and seeing what makes her tick, that they may negate the Agency's advantage over every adversary. The cyborg does not know of her handler's ulterior motives - he is using her devotion to him as a means of making her tag along and protect him (making her one hell of an operative would be advantageous to the story in this regard).

(4) A section of the Italian military are of the belief that the government have been too soft on the Northern seperatists. Consequently, they go rogue, launching a brutal, full-scale attack on the North. Among these rogue military elements are one or more fratello teams, whose handlers are among those who believe in the 'no soft options' doctrine. The special units tasked with putting down this rebellion include the SWA's remaining personnel, who find themselves hard-pressed at having to deal with their friends.

People might complain that these ideas might seem implausible, especially #2. My advice - just write them in such a way that they will actually work, dammit.

by **ElfenMagix** Fri 16 Nov 2007 - 22:33

Nachtsider wrote:But anyway.

In keeping with the original intent of this thread, here are some 'Rogue Fratello' story ideas that anyone may use:

(1) In an attempt to have Section Two shut down, Chief Draghi pulls some strings that result in one or more fratello teams being framed for a crime (assasination, perhaps). Presently on the run, they not only have to contend with their former comrades who are hunting them down, but also work to clear their names.

(2) Raballo has survived the attempt on his life by the Agency, and is determined to put a stop to their racket. Now lying low, he contacts Claes, reminds her of who he is, and uses her as a spy to take the Agency down from within.

(3) A fratello team go AWOL. The handler in question has struck up a deal with terrorists - an obscenely large reward in exchange for their taking his cyborg and seeing what makes her tick, that they may negate the Agency's advantage over every adversary. The cyborg does not know of her handler's ulterior motives - he is using her devotion to him as a means of making her tag along and protect him (making her one hell of an operative would be advantageous to the story in this regard).

(4) A section of the Italian military are of the belief that the government have been too soft on the Northern seperatists. Consequently, they go rogue, launching a brutal, full-scale attack on the North. Among these rogue military elements are one or more fratello teams, whose handlers are among those who believe in the 'no soft options' doctrine. The special units tasked with putting down this rebellion include the SWA's remaining personnel, who find themselves hard-pressed at having to deal with their friends.

People might complain that these ideas might seem implausible, especially #2. My advice - just write them in such a way that they will actually work, dammit.

I have a simillar idea to #1, but it wont be Draghi that tries to shut down Section 2. I'll start it when I'm almost done with the current one...

I like #2, and think its plausable. Despite what others have commented on about it. Those two spend days camping in a tent! Who knows what went on between them! :shock: Look deeply into my eyes...

#3 sounds like the Ernesto/Pia team, if we ever get the information on them! Until then- Pia remains alive in my fanfict... just a bit older and a bit meaner.

by sasahara17 Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 0:04

Idea one will be so damn cool. 'The Fugitive' with Cyborgs. Car chases, dwindling medial supples, close shaves, the final hurrah... Darn that would be cool.

Idea two, the SWA is in so much trouble. Them against a very cheesed of, nothing to lose Claes and Raballo? It'll be Death Note all over again, a battle not guns but of intellect and brains. All that is missing is one big Xanathos Roulette that succeeds/fails spectaularly. Claes; "Just as planned.

Idea four has the makings of a civil war. Maybe I'll be good to explore what the Padania must be thinking when they see the Cyborgs, the ones that have been viciously slaughtering them, get fired upon by other cyborgs?

Got one, it's an OC one, but bear with me for a moment here.
Not sure if it's been done before, but if it hasn't... well here.

You know about all these OC's running about right?

How the SWA introduces an ace/maverick/took cool to be true flesh and blood hero, give him/her a cyborg and how (s)he singlehandedly overturns current management and makes the his partner's life easier.

But how about we bring in an OC, young talented, idealistic, fresh out of the academy/university (therefore, zero experience) and drop him/her in... now get this... a support position, not a front line handler and cyborg super soldier team position but a support position in much the same vein as Priscilla or Ferro, without realising what (s)he is getting into?

I.e. No cyborg to take care of, bottom of the food chain, unable to influence the bass, etc...

The story doesn't revolve around him/her trying to transform to agency until everybody is cyborg friendly, but him struggling with his/her moral (s)he observes the action from a 'third person view'. Never going out into the field to fight, keeping the books and doing investigations... the mundane stuff nobody really gets any credit for but really needs to be done. (S)he has zero real authority and hence can’t get Lorenzo to look at him/her for more than thirty seconds straight, is generally the rookie and whipping boy and maybe (s)he doesn’t even knew how to point a gun straight.

Because of his/her placing, (s)he also gets to interact with the other rarely ever talked about characters like Priscilla, Olga, Ferro, Alfonso, Bianchi, everyone who isn't a handler. The little guys.

In short, a story not about the cyborgs and their handlers, but the people who support them from the sidelines on a daily basis, the scientists, the intelligence people, the logistics officers, people who make it possible but hold no real authority, and how they deal with what they have to do.

And of course if you really need the OC to interact with a cyborg, you could always have the OC take notice of the one lonely girl that is always left behind and tending to that garden...

It's sort of like.. Oh look at Topgun! Fighter Pilots, knights in the sky, get all the praise. But what about the lowly deck crew who made that F14 fly in the first place? Yeah. The faceless deck crew.

Same here. Cyborgs and Handlers maul the Panadia, but who scouted the location? Wnt to purchase a new shipment of .40 S&W when the armory was running out? Booked out the hotel for the operation? Cleaned the dorms? Did the paperwork? These faceless dudes.

Time to put a face on them.

by **Nachtsider** Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 0:17

I like that idea a lot, Sasahara. There aren't many stories written about the non-handler personnel (who are really quite a nice bunch of people - see how they bonded with Angie, for instance) and it would be great to see them take center stage. A tale written from a support operative's point of view would be fascinating.

by Danjo3 Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 2:33

sasahara17 wrote:How the SWA introduces an ace/maverick/took cool to be true flesh and blood hero, give him/her a cyborg and how (s)he singlehandedly overturns current management and makes the his partner's life easier.

I'm way ahead of you sasahara - Biff and Britney.

by sasahara17 Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 3:04

Actually Danjo 3 has a point... what if we had a fratello team so over the top it's almost ridiculous?

Having a body count similar to that of a Dynasty Warriors Game would be just funny.

Biff and Britney, destroying rebels and terrorists with extreme prejudice until component atoms don't even remain since 2007.

by Danjo3 Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 3:37

sasahara17 wrote:Actually Danjo 3 has a point... what if we had a fratello team so over the top it's almost ridiculous?

Over the top? OVER THE TOP!? Just because they're not cast from the same mold as the canon fratello's doesn't make them "over the top." I prefer to think of them as unique. Unconventional. Innovative. Ground breaking. I'm a very modest person and never one to boast, but I happen to think Biff and Britney are by far the best OC's ever conceived. I think they are better then the canon characters. I think that I myself am better the Adia. But as I said, I'm not one to brag.

by **ElfenMagix** Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 12:49

sasahara17 wrote:Idea four has the makings of a civil war. Maybe I'll be good to explore what the Padania must be thinking when they see the Cyborgs, the ones that have been viciously slaughtering them, get fired upon by other cyborgs?

Its always been an unproven theory of mine that Italy is at an edge of Civil War. That the Padania/Five Republics were a legit Parlament Party until they were kicked out. It would be much like the military driving tanks and jeeps into the House of Congress and kicked out the Democrats. Since then Padania has been conducting terrorist attacks against their political rivals. Since they are (in theory) an ousted polical party, local governments and agencies support them.
This would explain why Ferro once said, "We're the bad guys..."

by **Nachtsider** Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 17:58

Personally, I'm quite sick of seeing 'Padania this' and 'Padania that' everywhere in Gunslinger Girl - I'd like to see the Agency tackle different enemies more often, which I have the tendency to do in my stories. The only reason I picked them for my 'civil war' scenario is because they're the sole faction who would work as adversaries in this regard.

by Wileama Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 17:59

3klicks wrote:At first she wouldn't let Hillshire touch her and would pretend she felt nothing but anoyance for him. (rather tipical for a girl who loves her dad, but also wants to be independent and is sometimes embarassed by him) Aften the Pinochio thing she felt really guilty that she had failed him (obviously has very strong feelings for him). But, at the end of that, she let him hug her . Hard to say whether that was just a thing of the moment or a permament step forward.

The chemistry is different for the cyborgs than for humans. The distinction between sexual love and attachment may be blurred. Love is not something that just happens. There are things that inspire it and things that break it. If it is cared for two people can make it flare up and when neglected it will burn out. It's very possible that in which way it will go depends largely on how the cyborg and handler work out their relationship. Triela proubably feels something a hell of a lot stronger than just plain attachment, wheather its sexual attraction is left for debate. There is a whole chapter which emphesizes Triela having her period; i.e. being at a mature age. But, there is also a lot of reference to the father daughter relationship. So it can go both ways.

I put off replying to this post for way to long. It's been on my list of things since I saw it. Anyway there are two times I can recall Triela not wanting Hilshire to touch her. Both times she was feeling vulnerable, and didn't want anyones sympathy. I think that's why she wouldn't let Hilshire touch her. Hilshire isn't a very out going person, so he probably doesn't try to touch Triela all that often. So what I'm trying to say is that I think Triela would let Hilshire touch her before that hug in volume five. However when she's feeling vulnerable she doesn't want his sympathy, typical teenager.

I think its safe to say that all the girls feel love for their handlers. You have to understand that they have been brain washed. So they've had a level of love programed into them. With some of the girls that love is more genuine then others. Henrietta loves Jose, and there is a reason for that beyond just conditioning. Elsa loved Laura, and Laura never did shit to deserve it. I think to some extent that love is confusing, because their rolls aren't always clear. I love my mother. I've also been in love with some of my girlfriends. I love some of my friends like brothers. With the fratello's that love is harder to categorize. Are they lovers, or best friends. Triela, and Hilshire are partners. They trust each other with their lives, they have an unbreakable bond of loyalty between them. In many ways they are also father, and daughter. Hilshire is also a man, and Triela is a woman. So I think with Triela, and Hilshire that love sit somewhere between being partners, and being daughter-father. But there is just that hint of sexuality. Didn't Freud say your first love is your parent? [/crazy stream of consciousness rant]

sasahara17 wrote:It's sort of like.. Oh look at Topgun! Fighter Pilots, knights in the sky, get all the praise. But what about the lowly deck crew who made that F14 fly in the first place? Yeah. The faceless deck crew.

I officially endorse your story. Seriously though, it cool beans. I can see one challenge though. Keeping it interesting. Playing the roll of support can be uninteresting. You handle paper work. You sit in a car watching a building for hours, and nothing happens. You listen to that audio bug for 8 hours a day, and all you hear is some fucking soap opera that bores you to tears. There will be times when it gets interesting, someone finally walks out the building, and you trail them the the outskirts of rome. That couple you bugged gets busy. Hell maybe you even get to shoot your gun.

I'm not much of a writer, I'm just sharing my thoughts. I think there would have to be a strong character development in a story like that to keep things going. There's a reason no one has made a movie about the faceless deck crew yet. Our jobs are mostly damn boring.

Oh I just had my own thought about a 'rogue' fratello. What if their double agents. They go over to the Republican faction, and tell them pay us enough and we'll work for you. They stay at various safe houses. Shake hands with big wigs who want the fratello to work for them. Drain resources to get supplies they need to maintain the cyborg. Then after something like a year or two of poking and prodding around the Republican faction all hell breaks loose. Dozens of safe house are taken down. Top leaders are arrested by police, some dying in fire fights. The Republican factions are left reeling for the blow. One fratello feels the satisfaction of a job well done. Still they will have to struggle with what they had to do while undercover. Maybe they ran into another fratello team. Maybe they had to kill someone kidnapped from section two to prove their loyalty. Not to mention all that built up tension will doubtless have taken it toll.

Danjo3 wrote:
sasahara17 wrote:Actually Danjo 3 has a point... what if we had a fratello team so over the top it's almost ridiculous?
Over the top? OVER THE TOP!? Just because they're not cast from the same mold as the canon fratello's doesn't make them "over the top." I prefer to think of them as unique. Unconventional. Innovative. Ground breaking. I'm a very modest person and never one to boast, but I happen to think Biff and Britney are by far the best OC's ever conceived. I think they are better then the canon characters. I think that I myself am better the Adia. But as I said, I'm not one to brag.

\\breaks down laughing

Your awesome Danjo. \\compliments

by **ElfenMagix** Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 18:04

Nachtsider wrote:Personally, I'm quite sick of seeing 'Padania this' and 'Padania that' everywhere in Gunslinger Girl - I'd like to see the Agency tackle different enemies more often, which I have the tendency to do in my stories. The only reason I picked them for my 'civil war' scenario is because they're the sole faction who would work as adversaries in this regard.

Thats why I gave that scenero.

Anyways, one can plot another cyborg troop, or as I'm thinking, a truck bomb visits the compound for a later chapter of Solution's Resolution. But who sends it, I'm still trying to work out.

Dont worry, it wont cause too much damage, since it wont get past the parking lot. But that scene will be couple with Fernando, Jose and Ernest crying over the deaths of their cars (Porsche 928, Porsche Boxer, Ferrari Dino- respectively).

by **Nachtsider** Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 18:04

Wileama wrote:Didn't Freud say your first love is your parent?

Freud's analyses normally boil down to the same two damn things - it will either involve parents or penises.

My first love was my wife and hers was mine, period.

by LoC978 Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 18:07

Nachtsider wrote:Freud's analyses normally boil down to the same two damn things - it will either involve parents or penises.

...usually both.

by **Nachtsider** Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 18:10

Goddamn Freudians...

by LoC978 Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 18:14

*raises hands defensively*
hey, not me! I happen to think that psychology is a futile study. No two people are truly similar enough for any of these fuckers' rules to work every time.

by **Nachtsider** Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 18:22

Whoa, man - the above wasn't directed at you. I was reacting to the very real fact you put forward about Freudian analysis usually coming down to *both* elements, which had slipped me by earlier...

by **ElfenMagix** Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 18:26

Psychology has yet to have its first Einstein.
Or its first its Newton... or Galileo. I'm not even sure its had its Aristole...

I kinda get the impression that their basic model of the mind exists on the back of a giant turtle, in a bowl of water, supported by 4 giant elephants...

by **Nachtsider** Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 18:30

*cues theme from Terry Pratchett's Discworld*

by **ElfenMagix** Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 18:35

Where ever the origins of the statement came from, I agree with it.

by **Nachtsider** Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 18:46

If you mean the statement I posted above, Elfen, thanks. And even though I normally don't trust Wikipedia... here ya go.

by sasahara17 Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 19:25

Nachtsider wrote:Personally, I'm quite sick of seeing 'Padania this' and 'Padania that' everywhere in Gunslinger Girl - I'd like to see the Agency tackle different enemies more often, which I have the tendency to do in my stories. The only reason I picked them for my 'civil war' scenario is because they're the sole faction who would work as adversaries in this regard.

Actually I was hoping for the Padania caught in between. With a cyborg shootout happening around them, they're probably going to be too focused on surviving, especially after the extermist faction went to town on them, that they can't do more than react every time superhuman little girls start shooting. I'll be morbidly funny to see hardened rebels run around like civilians stuck in the crossfire between the government forces and the extremist faction.

Wileama wrote:I officially endorse your story. Seriously though, it cool beans. I can see one challenge though. Keeping it interesting. Playing the roll of support can be uninteresting. You handle paper work. You sit in a car watching a building for hours, and nothing happens. You listen to that audio bug for 8 hours a day, and all you hear is some fucking soap opera that bores you to tears. There will be times when it gets interesting, someone finally walks out the building, and you trail them the the outskirts of rome. That couple you bugged gets busy. Hell maybe you even get to shoot your gun.

I'm not much of a writer, I'm just sharing my thoughts. I think there would have to be a strong character development in a story like that to keep things going. There's a reason no one has made a movie about the faceless deck crew yet. Our jobs are mostly damn boring.

Yeah that is the problem. Although we get to see a side of the SWA that we never see before, it will be a very difficult side of the SWA to portray because unlike the handlers, these guys get all the boring stuff. Hence, no glory. Still, it all depends on where you place him/her and how you tell the story that counts. 8 hours of boring surveillance? summarise it into one line and be done with it, stress how boring it was. Focus on that 30 minutes of where somebody discovers the surveillance team and they have to run, with a timely intervention b y a fratello team the only reason they're still breathing. How does it fell to owe your life to a girl not even your shoulder height? All depends on what the author decides to put them trough.
I'm sure even the janitor has his/her moments when cleaning the cyborg warehouse.

Wileama wrote:Oh I just had my own thought about a 'rogue' fratello. What if their double agents. They go over to the Republican faction, and tell them pay us enough and we'll work for you. They stay at various safe houses. Shake hands with big wigs who want the fratello to work for them. Drain resources to get supplies they need to maintain the cyborg. Then after something like a year or two of poking and prodding around the Republican faction all hell breaks loose. Dozens of safe house are taken down. Top leaders are arrested by police, some dying in fire fights. The Republican factions are left reeling for the blow. One fratello feels the satisfaction of a job well done. Still they will have to struggle with what they had to do while undercover. Maybe they ran into another fratello team. Maybe they had to kill someone kidnapped from section two to prove their loyalty. Not to mention all that built up tension will doubtless have taken it toll.

Interesting, you could then put an InfernalAffairs/theDeparted style twist on it and have the 'only' person who knows they're 'still good guys' kick the bucket while meeting them. Of course, there is another person (whom they were not aware of) knows they're 'still good guys' but that would be a serious blow to the protagonists after perhaps facing and almost killing a very close friend (Jose and Henrietta vs Jean and Rico?).
Assuming both handler and cyborg know they are undercover, what would they think when what seems to be their only ticket out of the job is lying face down in a pool of blood? It'll all work out in the end but for a moment there... "Now you are a bad guy forever."
I'm pure evil aren't it?

Danjo3 wrote:
sasahara17 wrote:Actually Danjo 3 has a point... what if we had a fratello team so over the top it's almost ridiculous?
Over the top? OVER THE TOP!? Just because they're not cast from the same mold as the canon fratello's doesn't make them "over the top." I prefer to think of them as unique. Unconventional. Innovative. Ground breaking. I'm a very modest person and never one to boast, but I happen to think Biff and Britney are by far the best OC's ever conceived. I think they are better then the canon characters. I think that I myself am better the Adia. But as I said, I'm not one to brag.

They are unique. They are innovate. Sure they can rip the Empire State building off its foundations and use it to club a million terrorists with, but they can’t breathe in space and use the moon as a WMD. I sincerely apologise and retract my statement of them being over the top. I'm sorry Danjo3 I was out of line... *runs off to laugh hysterically*

by LoC978 Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 19:59

sasahara17 wrote:but they can’t breathe in space and use the moon as a WMD

are you sure about that? ...I wouldn't put it past Biff... He might even be able to jump to the moon.

by **ElfenMagix** Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 20:11

LoC978 wrote:
sasahara17 wrote:but they can’t breathe in space and use the moon as a WMD
are you sure about that? ...I wouldn't put it past Biff... He might even be able to jump to the moon.

Yeah; I bet he just could not let a cow out do him...

by Wileama Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 20:38

sasahara17 wrote:I'm sure even the janitor has his/her moments when cleaning the cyborg warehouse.

We had this discussion once. There are no janitors for the cyborg warehouse. The girls doubtless keep it clean themselves. That would be a hell of a story through...

Anyway I'm sure there are ways to keep a story about the little people interesting. I agree you probably are going to skim over the 8 hours of boring. I don't know I just guess it feels like you would be skipping a lot most of the time. Like I said though, I'm not much of a writer.

Interesting, you could then put an Infernal Affairs, or The Departed style twist on it and have the 'only' person who knows they're 'still good guys' kick the bucket while meeting them. Of course, there is another person (whom they were not aware of) knows they're 'still good guys' but that would be a serious blow to the protagonists after perhaps facing and almost killing a very close friend (Jose and Henrietta vs Jean and Rico?).
Assuming both handler and cyborg know they are undercover, what would they think when what seems to be their only ticket out of the job is lying face down in a pool of blood? It'll all work out in the end but for a moment there... "Now you are a bad guy forever."
I'm pure evil aren't it?[/quote]
The Departed is the reason I thought of that, I watched it just the other day. Leonardo Dicaprio became cool again when I saw that film. I avoided him for a long time after Titanic. Anyway back on topic. I think there are a few problems with having only one person know the handlers is good. The first, is simple, administration. Top brass is going to have to sign off on an operation like that. It wont be hard from them to figure out who the double agent is. So people like Jean, Lorenzo, are going to know. Second you keep these secrets from the other people in the organization for two reasons:

To prevent moles from ruining their cover
To ensure their reactions are genuine

If anyone handler, or above is a spy you've got problems. Your still likely to keep the circle small, but it will hardly be a one person. So the support like Ferro and the like wont know. Handlers will probably be on a need to know basis. Anyone part of planing the op will be in on it, and that will be it.

You still could have a fire fight between two fratello. A clean pair who don't know the truth stumble in on them rogue pair by accident. Do they make it out alive? Killing them would be evil, but deliciously so. Or it could be a carefully planed event to establish 'street cred' for the undercover fratello. I can just see it, the Pandia run away from the dead Fratello. The reader thinks oh no my favorite fratello dead! Then cyborg gets up asking, "Was that really necessary?" As her handler removes the squib from under his jacket. You could also have the undercover agent lose their contact. Have the rogue Fratello and SWA trying to get in touch with each other without blowing their cover. All the while the Fratello helping to plan the next job, the attack on the SWA compound, or some such.

sasahara17 wrote:but they can’t . . . use the moon as a WMD.

Oh you poor Naive thing you.

by **ElfenMagix** Sat 17 Nov 2007 - 22:02

Wileama wrote:
sasahara17 wrote:I'm sure even the janitor has his/her moments when cleaning the cyborg warehouse.
We had this discussion once. There are no janitors for the cyborg warehouse. The girls doubtless keep it clean themselves. That would be a hell of a story through...

CLEAN UP IN AISLE 7!

'Oh dear... not another mess to clean in the cyborg ward again... I know there are cameras everywhere, but some of these girls have no femimine modesty what so ever! OK, I can handle the occassional robe or towel wrapping- but that long blonde haired one walks around naked! Sheesh... Of my mother ever found out that I mop and clean up a place like this, she would have me quite and work at a porno-theater...'

-from the mind of the Momma's Boy janitor

Wileama wrote:
sasahara17 wrote:but they can’t . . . use the moon as a WMD.
Oh you poor Naive thing you.

*sniff sniff*
Do I smell a virgin?!!

by sasahara17 Sun 18 Nov 2007 - 4:38

Yes, I am the classic case of "number of years alive, number of years without a girlfriend."
Anyway... bad example. Biff can jump to the moon and Britney can lasso Jupiter. These two have Disgaea level powers (level 999). My head hurts just thinking about it.
Anyway, is it okay If I use Nachtsider and Wileama's false rouge fratello idea for a oneshot/parody of InfrenalAffairs/TheDeparted?
It's lodged itself in my head and there's only one way to get rid of it. If I do, I'll post it once I finish it. If not, I'll just write the skit and shove it into some deep dark corner of my hard drive until I forget about it.

by **Nachtsider** Sun 18 Nov 2007 - 4:53

Like I mentioned prior, Sasahara - the ideas I've submitted are concepts that anybody can use. Hell, I'm even fine with more than one author using each - the resulting stories, although running on the same premise, would be interesting to evaluate since they come from the pens of different people.

If you're a virgin, do yourself a favor and only go for someone who's equally untouched when the time comes - you don't deserve any less.

by Wileama Sun 18 Nov 2007 - 5:52

By all means go right ahead. I'm don't write, at least not yet. So by all means go ahead and use my idea, I'm not using them. Even if I do start writing I wont mind someone using my ideas. It would be interesting to see someone's else's take on a story.

Anyway how did virginity come up? I'm so confused.

by Guest Sun 18 Nov 2007 - 10:08

Brace yourselves, I will be jumping all over the place.

Wileama wrote:Anyway there are two times I can recall Triela not wanting Hilshire to
touch her. Both times she was feeling vulnerable, and didn't want
anyones sympathy. I think that's why she wouldn't let Hilshire touch
her. Hilshire isn't a very out going person, so he probably doesn't try
to touch Triela all that often. So what I'm trying to say is that I
think Triela would let Hilshire touch her before that hug in volume
five. However when she's feeling vulnerable she doesn't want his
sympathy, typical teenager.

I think it's more complicated then that. I wasn't mentioning this to say that she doesn't have feelings for Hillshire, in fact all that happens because she feelis strongly (otherwise she would just be apathetic). However it is an indication that their relationship isn't in the best possible place in the beggining of the manga. In the very first volumes, Triela has some sharp criticism for Hillshire ("He just thinks he's doing his job as a guardian" and the like). This is because she would like Hillshire to get closer, but in general it's not a sign of a well worked out relationship. Aside from feeling vulnerable (and a tipical teenager in this regard), there are two more reasons:
1) Triela is confused about her emotions, and about what her relationship to Hillshire should be so shes kindof scared and keeps him at a distance. Not just physically, either. Before the pino incident she brushes Hillshires "I would never betray you." off with an "Oh please". It'e because she isn't ready to talk so openly and get so close.
2) She has a strong sense of, er can't find the right words, duty. She thinks she failed Hillshire and mentiones that now she can't look him in the eyes. One of the soldiers comments "Maybe she wants to be shouted at." At this point, when she is feeling guilty, she doesn't really want Hillshire to reach out to her because she feels she doesn't deserve it. That's why it's only after she killed Pino that she came to him on her own accord.

Although, if you look at the term voulnerable in a wider sense I guess all of that would be part of it.

This should get a seperate thread, it pops up all over the place.

Back to the main topic:

-Psyhology: I'm not sure about how effective psyhology is in practice, and I dislike Freud, but Jung had some interesting ideas.
- Support staff. Yeah, just mount the interesting stuff together and combine material from many staff members. It will end up being a series of small episodes showing, the life of each character, their feelings/characters/motivations, and character development over time. (Although, I don't think Hollywood would ever buy into it.) In a collage type of way. I doubt I could write it, but someone with some more skill and experience could do a good job.
- I mentioned the story idea of "what would happen if a decision was
made to scrap the 1st gen cyborgs". See all the handler, and cyborg's
reactions; how would it play out. [resons for this, people at the top
make stupid decisions; 1st gen don't have a safety mechanism -
higher-ups might think handlers have too much power due to this, etc
-> see the other thread]
- I like the idea of internal unrest, cyborg-against cyborg, mixed loyalties. Just the fighting against Padania does get a lottle boring, and although it is clear that there are internal struggles withing the government the manga doesn't really try to put section 2 into the bigger picture much.

sasahara wrote:Jose and Henrietta vs Jean and Rico?

This is interesting, if there is anyone we know Jean would never kill it's Jose. He cares for him (he sent him of the safety vacation) and feels that it is his fault that Jose is in the state he's in.
- Another idea is a cyborg seperated from/lost contact with her handler. She got a set of orders, and she's proubably going to follow them, but the orgers may work out the wrong way or become out-dated. [edit: stupid me, I'm pretty sure someone would have already mentioned this. I didn't really read the whole thread.]

[edit] NLP ("Neuro Linguistinc Programing") is some pretty cool stuff too. Reading an introduction manual now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming

by **ElfenMagix** Sun 18 Nov 2007 - 13:58

3klicks wrote:- Another idea is a cyborg seperated from/lost contact with her handler. She got a set of orders, and she's proubably going to follow them, but the orgers may work out the wrong way or become out-dated. [edit: stupid me, I'm pretty sure someone would have already mentioned this. I didn't really read the whole thread.]

I did this with Jose & Henrietta on Solution's Resolutions, Chapter 1- Diplomatic Immunity. On a mission to NYC, they were arrested for doing their job. While Jose waited for the SWA/Section 2 to bail them out, Henrietta escapes the police precient they were held in and after fighting the police, manages to escape to their hotel room in the Waldorf Astoria. Along the way, was how Rachel was introduced; being shot in a gun battle Henrietta was in with the boys in blue.

In my mind, if captured, the cyborg is to find a means of escape, and get back to their operation HQ. If they can, find their handler and rescue them. In Henrietta's case at the time, she could not find Jose, and thus went on her own.

by sasahara17 Sun 18 Nov 2007 - 16:45

Thanks for the confirmation. Intrestingly enough I started writing the 'double agent' idea, but ended up brainstorming a new cyborg operations agency instead, with two analysis personel as the main characters...
I'll keep you posted.

by Wileama Sun 18 Nov 2007 - 16:55

Sweet deal. I just went back to FF.net for the first time in a long time, and am just getting around to reading your stories. Their pretty good I'll be sure to leave a review. Still for some damn reason it's given me this mental image. Triela swapping places with this guy cigar, and all. I don't know I'm going to have to figure some way of getting this out of mind.

by Guest Sun 18 Nov 2007 - 17:13

Yeah, I should read at least a couple some time. But, just the time I spend at this forum is quite a bit, and I'm a man of no-moderation watsoever so I'm afraid that once I get started I'll wake up a week later and notice all the stuff that's piled up.

Oh, sweet, sweet, winter holidays. Can't wait.

by sasahara17 Mon 19 Nov 2007 - 4:40

Wileama wrote:Sweet deal. I just went back to FF.net for the first time in a long time, and am just getting around to reading your stories. Their pretty good I'll be sure to leave a review. Still for some damn reason it's given me this mental image. Triela swapping places with this guy cigar, and all. I don't know I'm going to have to figure some way of getting this out of mind.

Wait the starcraft II marine dude? The one with all the armor? Accorsing to wiki, He's supposed to be some sort of convict who agreed to military service right?
Triela... smoking a cigar...
Sounds like a back in action flick. Question is, what's going to make Treila retire/get trown in jail in the first place? You may be onto something Wileama!
They keep playing this trailer over at JB HI-FI. I wish Blizzard would put out a trailer on the Zerg or something. I like the Zerg.

by **Nachtsider** Mon 19 Nov 2007 - 5:04

Triela always struck me as one who would turn out to be a cigarette person if she were to grow up - something like Integra Hellsing, perhaps. Come to think of it, both ladies do look somewhat alike - perhaps the long-standing issue of exactly what country Triela came from can be solved by adhering to the hypothesis that she and Integra are of similar ethnicity.

by sasahara17 Mon 19 Nov 2007 - 6:12

Nachtsider wrote:Triela always struck me as one who would turn out to be a cigarette person if she were to grow up - something like Integra Hellsing, perhaps. Come to think of it, both ladies do look somewhat alike - perhaps the long-standing issue of exactly what country Triela came from can be solved by adhering to the hypothesis that she and Integra are of similar ethnicity.

If I'm not mistaken, Sir Hellsing's mother was from India. Her father was a girl crazy English Gentleman (Hellsing the Dawn). I think if we follow that, Treila is, or desended from someone, of Indian descent.

Anyway, with regards to my fanfics, I have two problems that I was hoping that someone from around here could help me with.
(1) Need good specs for a 'totally tricked out custom Vespa scooter' Priscillia is going to own. The Vespa can be as expnsive as it has to be, just so much so that Priscillia is totally mad about it. It's a central figure to the Elsa story.
(2) In regards to my WIP, I need a name for the orginisation that I have in mind. It's newly formed Interpol agency specifically tasked with handling illegal arms trade and illegal stage one cyborg technology half a decade or so into the future. The current name is;
Interpol Covert Law Enforcement Illigal Arms Division Nine... which is lame.
I wanted a new agency (with a couple of old faces trown in that transferred from the SWA) so that the OC analyist can be there at the inception. Any Ideas?

Should I post this here, or put it into a different thread?

by Danjo3 Mon 19 Nov 2007 - 6:33

Nachtsider wrote:Personally, I'm quite sick of seeing 'Padania this' and 'Padania that' everywhere in Gunslinger Girl - I'd like to see the Agency tackle different enemies more often

Technically speaking, Padania is the name given to the northern part of Italy. It’s not any kind of official organization. I guess the closest thing would be the Northern League. But of course, they’re not terrorists, so I guess it would make for a pretty boring story.

by **Nachtsider** Mon 19 Nov 2007 - 6:34

sasahara17 wrote:If I'm not mistaken, Sir Hellsing's mother was from India. Her father was a girl crazy English Gentleman (Hellsing the Dawn). I think if we follow that, Treila is, or desended from someone, of Indian descent.

Correct on both counts - at least, where I'm concerned. Mimi's inquiring as to whether Triela has Japanese blood leads me to think that she just might have Asian ancestry of some kind.

Might.

Anyway.

I wish I could help you with the scooter - Priscilla owning one is something one could definitely envision as canon - but my knowledge of vehicles is scanty at best. Regarding the new outfit, the best I can come up with at present is 'Division Nine'. It's simple, I know, but doesn't seem inappropriate in any way.

by Danjo3 Mon 19 Nov 2007 - 7:43

Nachtsider wrote:
Correct on both counts - at least, where I'm concerned. Mimi's inquiring as to whether Triela has Japanese blood leads me to think that she just might have Asian ancestry of some kind.

Keep in mind that Mimi’s question concerning Triela’s Japanese ethnicity only comes up in the English version. You don’t see it anywhere in the Japanese, Korean, French or German translations.

by LoC978 Mon 19 Nov 2007 - 11:29

Sasahara wrote:(1) Need good specs for a 'totally tricked out custom Vespa scooter' Priscillia is going to own.

just poked around, and I was amazed at how many places sell Vespa performance parts... but hey, we Americans trick out everything from briggs&stratton lawnmower engines to gigantic cat diesels... why not a Vespa? ...on the other hand, I can't find specs or prices on anything but individual parts, and I'm not willing to put one together myself just to tell ya (I might post the specs of my '72 Honda 125 street bike when I'm done with it, though... you'd be surprised what you can pull out of a 125cc engine).

Danjo wrote:Technically speaking, Padania is the name given to the northern part of Italy. It’s not any kind of official organization. I guess the closest thing would be the Northern League. But of course, they’re not terrorists, so I guess it would make for a pretty boring story

as I said in a review recently: Wink

--time for an Italian current events/recent history lesson!--
In the narrowest sense, the word 'Padania' refers to the valley of the Po river. It's a common name for northern Italy, and has become politically synonymous with the northern seperatist movement {in the context of the story, the radical 'Five Republics' faction has started stirring up trouble, hence the creation of our beloved Gunslinging cyber-tots}.
Thus, referring to the organization as 'Padania' or 'the Five Republics' makes perfect sense. Referring to a single agent is trickier, though one could describe Pinocchio as 'a Padanian assassin', or an 'Agent of Padania/the Five Republics'.

by **ElfenMagix** Mon 19 Nov 2007 - 13:24

LoC978 wrote:
Sasahara wrote:(1) Need good specs for a 'totally tricked out custom Vespa scooter' Priscillia is going to own.
just poked around, and I was amazed at how many places sell Vespa performance parts... but hey, we Americans trick out everything from briggs&stratton lawnmower engines to gigantic cat diesels... why not a Vespa? ...on the other hand, I can't find specs or prices on anything but individual parts, and I'm not willing to put one together myself just to tell ya (I might post the specs of my '72 Honda 125 street bike when I'm done with it, though... you'd be surprised what you can pull out of a 125cc engine).

You mean something as proposed to this?
Idea and concept generation - Page 2 Hondajet

by Guest Mon 19 Nov 2007 - 14:27

NAchtsider wrote:Triela always struck me as one who would turn out to be a cigarette
person if she were to grow up - something like Integra Hellsing,
perhaps. Come to think of it, both ladies do look somewhat
alike - perhaps the long-standing issue of exactly what country Triela
came from can be solved by adhering to the hypothesis that she and
Integra are of similar ethnicity.

I don't think they are made from the same mold. Triela can be cynical, sarcastic, and can give someone a hearty (verbal) jab when need be, but she is at teh same time, well, more feminine. I don't see her as the heavy metal type either. She's no square, but has how to say it refined? or moderate? tastes in clothes, music, interests, and behaviour.

Integra on the other hand is based on the stereotype of the "English woman" and playing off of the traditions of Victorian Queens such as Elisabeth I (who ruled without a King, and fought off the Spanish Armada). An ideal of a woman with a deeper voice, who is capable of doing what a man does.

It's not that I have anything against Integra, or that I think that Triela is square or soft, but they are definantly in different character classess in general. (Also, lets face it, all the characters in Hellsing are nuts in one way or another. You name a character and I will give you the manifestation of their neurosis and its origin to the best of my ability.)

This is just my interpretation, of course.

I had a harder tyme with putting my thoughts down on paper (or screen in this case) then with any other post here so far. So its proubably rather uncler and I will proubably have to clerify later.

by Wileama Mon 19 Nov 2007 - 19:59

sasahara17 wrote:Wait the starcraft II marine dude? The one with all the armor? Accorsing to wiki, He's supposed to be some sort of convict who agreed to military service right?
Triela... smoking a cigar...
Sounds like a bad[?] action flick. Question is, what's going to make Treila retire/get trown in jail in the first place? You may be onto something Wileama!
They keep playing this trailer over at JB HI-FI. I wish Blizzard would put out a trailer on the Zerg or something. I like the Zerg.

First we simply have to square you away with the StarCraft universe. Terrains are like the Australians, only in space. Oh, and they haven't quite civilized up yet. They have a tendency to be rough around the edges, and can be generally categorized as rednecks. [in space] A lot of Terrain military is large part conscripts, especially the grunts. What better way to conscript then out of the penal system? Mind you these are the criminals that the other criminals have locked up. So long as you keep them in line, it makes for some really... well... 'interesting' grunts.

That said you have to understand it's just an image, not a story. The two universe don't meld well. A Terrain space marine and a cyborg are like a modern tank and it's world war one predecessor. A marine would glance down at a cyborg, and scoff as her tiny bullets bounced off his exoskeleton. Then back hand her so hard as to knock her out, if not kill.

No it's that Triela is cool, and generally a bad ass. Space marines are cool, and generally bad ass. So when I imagine Triela's head in a space marine armor, my mind assumes that this new creation must be as bad ass as a combination of these two parts. That's what my mind is thinking. On inspection the concept really isn't a good one. It does stoke the imagination though.

I don't know why, but Triela always does seem like a smoker to me. Like she should just light up from time to time. It's a filthy habit, and I don't like it myself. However that's to american cultural programing smoking seems a must for the solitary bad ass in the dark. [See solid snake]

**EDIT**
Well it depends on just how tricked out are we talking. Are we talking:

That's nice: not crazy fast. It makes sense.
That's stupid: Fast, like really. A racing bike would have been better.
That's Crazy: You can seriously compet against actual racing bikes, which are much cheaper.
FLCL: That picture of the jet engines, that's you.

'That's nice' will be a Fast Vespa: $6,000 Maybe she's thrown some nice rims, tires , and gotten it tuned really nice. [call it $750] So roughly: 6,750.

That's stupid, is the cost of that's nice plus say a racing engine. Man hours to get the engine in will be a bitch. Call it $1,500 for a really nice engine, and as much for the work. Then top it off with a few perks like a better ignition system, stronger battery, ect. So call it 10,250 for that's stupid.

That's crazy, throw on some race tires, racing suspension, and racing transmission. Throw in a Nitros bottle on top of that. Oh yeah, and the man hours to get in all in. Lets call the rims, and tires: $1,000. Race suspension: $2,500. Race transmission: 3,250. Nitros: 1,500. Throw that all on the stupid cost, and your looking at 18,500.

For FLCL make up a number. Is it at least twice as big as the number listed for crazy? Is it less then something completely stupid like 1 million? Your number sounds right.

Keep in mind these numbers are general estimations on my part. I've browsed various internet shops, looked at some e-bay auctions, and generally relied on my gut. Take everything with a grain of salt, as I feel my research didn't really go the distance on this one. I'm feeling lazy at the moment.

by **Nachtsider** Mon 19 Nov 2007 - 21:40

Klicks, my earlier commentary was based on similarities between Triela and Integra's physical appearances, not their personalities.

LoC, I somehow think that the founding of the Agency and its usage of cyborg children as assassins was catalysed and not caused by the rise of Padania. My line of thinking is that Padania or not, their racket would have been put into action.

by **ElfenMagix** Mon 19 Nov 2007 - 21:45

Wileama wrote:**EDIT**
Well it depends on just how tricked out are we talking. Are we talking:

...
..
.
FLCL: That picture of the jet engines, that's you.

'That's nice' will be a Fast Vespa: $6,000 Maybe she's thrown some nice rims, tires , and gotten it tuned really nice. [call it $750] So roughly: 6,750.

...

..

.

For FLCL make up a number. Is it at least twice as big as the number listed for crazy? Is it less then something completely stupid like 1 million? Your number sounds right.

Used jets can go as little as $5K each to $20K, pending on size and condition. Fuel plumbing and mountings are extra, and are mostly custom jobs when used for 'out of the box' applications.

But Oh The Fun!!!

by sasahara17 Mon 19 Nov 2007 - 21:50

Thanks for the ideas.

I am now announcing my need for a beta reader. Claes was so OOC in my latest chapter that I couldbn't concentrate inmy clases today and I had to run straight home to fix the problem.

I refuse to allow a reppeat performance of this incident to happen again, and so I need someone to point it out to me before I go and do something stupid like post it on a panicked impulse (calmed down now that the house is tidy and my Gran might NOT be coming). Any takers?

by **Nachtsider** Mon 19 Nov 2007 - 21:55

Pardon my naivete, but is a beta reader something like a proofreader?

by **ElfenMagix** Mon 19 Nov 2007 - 22:00

'As the hooded figure encrouched upon her diminishing distance on the edge of the communications tower of the Empire State Building, she wraps her hand severed arm on one of the struts of the frame.

Hooded figure (reaching out to Claes): Claes....you're my daughter...
Claes: NOOOOOOoooooo!!!!!!!'

by Wileama Mon 19 Nov 2007 - 23:09

ElfenMagix wrote:Used jets can go as little as $5K each to $20K, pending on size and condition. Fuel plumbing and mountings are extra, and are mostly custom jobs when used for 'out of the box' applications.

But Oh The Fun!!!

Yeah, but those custom jobs are not cheap. These mounts had better be some fine welding. These mounts will have to support the weight, whatever, if any, thrust, and the torque of the engine. You really don't want one to fall off due to stress. Also it might sound crazy, but fire suppression might be another good idea. You also going to need to get some oil pluming done. Not to mention maybe integrate a start system, depending on the motor. Now you have to ask yourself who do you trust to do this? How much do they charge you?!

Also I don't think you want to run your bike of the thrust. Maybe if it where just one inline engine. Even then though I would feel much more comfortable with a shaft system driving the wheels. If you've got two engines. It would be a must for a two engine set up. Different engines will produce different thrust, so the bike may want to turn one way, or another. God help you if one of the engines flames out for a moment! The price for that transmission system would be astronomical. Getting a jet engine to work on something that clearly was not intended for it, is not a small feat. I wouldn't expect it to run much beyond 100,000 if it reached even that. However anything short of 35,000 sounds low to me.

Anyway I offered my services before, and I offer them again. I don't know if I would be any good at it, but I like to think I could help. I'm back on a day schedule mountain time. I'm pretty sure I'm the only Wileama on the internet, so if you see that handle it's me. I certainly wouldn't mind getting an advanced copy of your work. Very Happy

**edit**
Jay Leno paid 150,000 for his jet bike.

by sasahara17 Mon 19 Nov 2007 - 23:10

Nachtsider wrote:Pardon my naivete, but is a beta reader something like a proofreader?

I was thinking of something along those lines, expect the reader was paying closer attention to that characters and plot for holes the plot and bad characterisation than the actual spelling and grammar.

ElfenMagix wrote:'As the hooded figure encrouched upon her
diminishing distance on the edge of the communications tower of the
Empire State Building, she wraps her hand severed arm on one of the
struts of the frame.

Hooded figure (reaching out to Claes): Claes....you're my daughter...
Claes: NOOOOOOoooooo!!!!!!!'

Now how would our dear Claes have gotten up there? And who is that mysterious man (as if we don't already have an idea)? What do you have in mind Elfen?

Wileama wrote:First we simply have to square you away with the
StarCraft universe. Terrains are like the Australians, only in space.
Oh, and they haven't quite civilized up yet. They have a tendency to be
rough around the edges, and can be generally categorized as rednecks.
[in space] A lot of Terrain military is large part conscripts,
especially the grunts. What better way to conscript then out of the
penal system? Mind you these are the criminals that the other criminals
have locked up. So long as you keep them in line, it makes for some
really... well... 'interesting' grunts.

The most memorable thing I can remember was the 'special intrest groups vs kerrigan' mission. I can't remember the Terran side very well, the Protoss and Zerg were more intresting.

Thanks for the Vespa recommendations. I'll be using a mortal Vespa as opposed to one that is ridden by a guitar weilding maniac, thank you...

Unless everybody wants to see a cyborg swing a violin into some poor sid's head while going at eighty mph, then maybe I'll stick it in 'Missed' somewhere.

by **ElfenMagix** Mon 19 Nov 2007 - 23:56

sasahara17 wrote:Thanks for the ideas.

I am now announcing my need for a beta reader. Claes was so OOC in my latest chapter that I couldbn't concentrate inmy clases today and I had to run straight home to fix the problem.

I refuse to allow a reppeat performance of this incident to happen again, and so I need someone to point it out to me before I go and do something stupid like post it on a panicked impulse (calmed down now that the house is tidy and my Gran might NOT be coming). Any takers?

After reading your rewrites, I would say, No- Cleas was not OOC, well, except to the point where she passed out and why. It is my belief that Claes is so heavily programmed by that 3rd rewrite condictioning that her glasses do make a statement of her character. In the 2 times she's had them off after Rabello's Death, she kicked ass period. Her training is still vicious, and her capabilities still sharp. It is her inability to do anything with glasses on that stops her from advancing any further. All her past training came from Rabello when he was alive, and he taught her well. As Lorenzo said of her, "She was trained by a master."

As for her fainting in midfight... BOO!!! HISSS!!! BOOOO!!!!!
OK, enough of that. Its your story and it was well played. I dont agree with it, but accept it since its your creation. Keep up the good work!

by **Nachtsider** Mon 19 Nov 2007 - 23:59

ElfenMagix wrote:It is her inability to do anything with glasses on that stops her from advancing any further.

Once again, I feel that this is an oversimplification.

But anyway.

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