Cyborgs and Sex?

Do you guys think any of the girls know about it, since that knowledge could have been erased, right?

Sandro may have taught Petra, but would they be allowed to do it. If not would he do it anyway?

First gens? Probably wiped from their minds and generally not mentioned. Second Gens? they might know a thing or two...

The girls know about sex, love and intercourse.
Triela has her cycle, just like most of the other girls would. Henrietta understands about it even though her uterus was removed. Just because her uterus was removed does not mean that her vagina wasn't. she should still be functional in that respect.

Since they should have their cycles running like Triela does, they should have had some form of sex education taught by Ferro, Priscilla and Ogla to explain the basics and how things connect from there. At least this is done in Fanfiction.

The only problem is connecting the emotion of Love with Sexual Intercourse for their handlers. Stupid Petra leaked too much to the first gens then they should have known in this regard. But they already knew the basics.

I often said, "If I (the cyborg) am willing to die for my handler, sex should be nothing in comparison." They all love their handlers well past this extent. This is how I believe it is done, especially with the older/more mature units like Petra.

With my OCs, the line is often tested but hardly ever gone past it.

Then, Triela knows about sex just because she has periods. Do the adults really need tell them what their underparts are for? Why wouldn't they just tell them not to think about it.
But, I wonder if some girls would start experimenting after that.
I guess it might be beneficial to tell them of the tie between sex and love, so they wouldn't do it with a stranger.
BUT THEN, an Elsa-like event might happen if the girls don't get that love. Even if they're told that sex isn't allowed.

I just gotta say i really like this topic, but first generations are possibly a lost cause, maybe triela is an exception but the newer generations, you got a few good possibilities there. I could delve deeper but most likley what i have to contribute is obvious as hell

I think a lot of it has to do with how you view the possibility of cyborg aging. It seems everyone has their own interpretation.

Normal kids, even if they know the mechanics of how babies are made, generally ignore sex until their own hormones throw the ON/OFF switch. Once that happens they develop an interest not only in the act of sex itself but the politics & relationship dynamics that go along with it.

So does that happen to cyborgs? It depends on whether you believe they age or not. Take Rico for instance. Converted at 11 she states in the first season anime that she's been a cyborg two years. She still looks and acts 11...but do her hormones continue to develop? If so, at some point that magical switch will be triggered.

In my OC universe this does not happen...the girls are locked in at their conversion ages in every sense of the word, meaning that they do not develop hormonally. Plenty of other authors have taken different routes though, as they are entitled to do.

In Kara's case, she was converted after she was sexually active, so I expect the switch is still "on" with her. She has been rendered sterile as part of her conversion.

I am of the opinion this would be SOP, but I refer to it only in the context of Kara and not any other OCs who might make appearances in my fiction.

Professor Voodoo wrote:I think a lot of it has to do with how you view the possibility of cyborg aging. It seems everyone has their own interpretation.

Normal kids, even if they know the mechanics of how babies are made, generally ignore sex until their own hormones throw the ON/OFF switch. Once that happens they develop an interest not only in the act of sex itself but the politics & relationship dynamics that go along with it.

So does that happen to cyborgs? It depends on whether you believe they age or not. Take Rico for instance. Converted at 11 she states in the first season anime that she's been a cyborg two years. She still looks and acts 11...but do her hormones continue to develop? If so, at some point that magical switch will be triggered.

In my OC universe this does not happen...the girls are locked in at their conversion ages in every sense of the word, meaning that they do not develop hormonally. Plenty of other authors have taken different routes though, as they are entitled to do.

VooDoo, I will have to disagree with this, and I will explain why, other than working with children since forever.

Girls start at a much earlier age in discovering what they have than boys. In fact girls will play with themselves at an early age, and have some idea in what those parts are for. I'm sure you (as in everybody in the forum) has heard about 'Playing Doctor', 'House' or any other such games. But at then comes a time when they want to know where babies come from and eventually learn. But when their hormones hit its a whole new story. Depending on their experience and their upbringing, makes a girl go towards one direction or another, with most having an interest in sex but at the same don't want trouble with it. Some have an easy time of it, others a horrible time no matter how they try to find any good. Then there are those who are forced into it and how they react to it becomes a life long process. They learn how and why Love and Sex connect when it does, if it does and when it doesn't. They have to find for themselves in what niche they belong into, for how long and why.

This is a subject that if difficult to discuss about, because when one tries to be serious in it, there are a few that try to spin it out of content and make it something that it is not. With that said...

Rico is the poorest excuse for a girl to be an example of. In her 11 years of her hospitalization, she had little to nothing that normal girls had and would not have any form of a normal life if it were not for the SWA. She never learned those things a normal girl had to learn and when her hormones kick in, she is going to be very confused in what happens next if somebody does not teach her Sex Education. Even that maybe not enough for her to understand how sex and emotions fit in. At 11, she should be starting her cycle unless she's a late bloomer or the SWA sterilized her too.

In my OC World, the locking of ages and hormones in the cyborg (girl) was a failure from the beginning (with Francesca). The conditioning makes it worse in the girls, and without their hormones, they would be growing beards with the Mono-Hydride-Testosterone their adrenal glands emits with every shot of adrenaline it gives as well. Marisa with a deep voice and beard?

Marisa: Yo Elio. Can I barrow your razor?

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1942392/1/Money_Shots

^ Compulsory reading. Do it now.

Honest to goodness, I doubt any of the handlers have been briefed as to how they should approach this issue. My guess is they're expected to deal with 'the birds and the bees' like any father ought to with their young daughter, except in Sandro's case, where he'd probably teach Petra the Kama Sutra, sessions complete with hands-on learning and frequent practice. Although the Elsa incident might have instilled some awareness of ensuring that the girls do not confuse love and sex.

Professor Voodoo wrote:In my OC universe this does not happen...the
girls are locked in at their conversion ages in every sense of the word,
meaning that they do not develop hormonally.

Sounds like canon to me.

I’m no expert or anything, but I did a lot of research for one of my stories concerning masturbation. What I found in the majority of the personal female accounts was that their first orgasm was something they stumbled onto to by accident, through experimentation. In most cases they were not even sexually aroused – it was simply something that felt good, while for others it was a way to relieve stress. Even the small percentage who knew what an orgasm was (and as Elfen said, girls start at an early age, so most didn’t) it was still not something they had set out to accomplish. Regardless of the reason, logic dictates that if something feels good, you’re going to keep doing it, and if you keep doing it long enough, you’re eventually going to get results. This leads me to believe that the girls at the Agency are no different from girls everywhere – they are going to be curious about their bodies, and they are going to experiment. I know a lot for GSG fans like to put the girls on a pedestal (which is perfectly understandable), but I think it’s a little naive to think they would behave any different from so called normal girls.

As far as sex with their handlers is concerned, I’m of the belief that Petra is the only one who is active. We just don’t know enough about the other gen2 handlers to draw a conclusion. As for the 1st generation handlers? Sorry, but I just don’t see it. I can’t imagine anyone of them even considering such a thing.

hydra282 wrote:Sandro may have taught Petra, but would they be allowed to do it? If not would he do it anyway?

I'd say there was a definite taboo on taking advantage of a cyborg sexually. What the SWA does can be regarded as 'child abuse', but handlers like Jose can tell themselves it's all a necessary evil to combat crime and terrorism; the last thing they'd want is for someone to - by implication - tar them with the brush of paedophila. Chief Draghi would be eager for a scandal he can use to badmouth the cyborg program among the covert services. Ironically this would prevent him from using the Sandro/Petra affair to stir up trouble - as Sandro used to work as a honey trap for Section One, Draghi could be accused of having arranged the entire thing.

I think Petra's legal age in Italy.

hydra282 wrote:I think Petra's legal age in Italy.

Say that to Silvio Berlus(t)coni.

hydra282 wrote:I think Petra's legal age in Italy.

The age of consent in Italy is 14 in general and it is 16 with a person of influence/authority over them. So Petra is indeed legally able to consent to sexual relations with a handler.

Still, her conditioning implies a degree of coercion. No consent on Petra's part can be regarded as of her own free will beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Personally, however, I feel that the SWA staff don't really give a shit about whether or not Petra and Sandro are screwing, so as long as their on-the-job effectiveness isn't adversely affected.

Nachtsider wrote:Still, her conditioning implies a degree of coercion. No consent on Petra's part can be regarded as of her own free will beyond the shadow of a doubt.

True, but I interpret what I see in the manga as implying/showing that Petra is going into this in no small part of her own volition and that her feelings towards Sandro are in no small part her own.

Conditioning may be providing some "positive pushes", but I don't see this as a case of Petra having little to no free will in the situation.

hydra282 wrote:I think Petra's legal age in Italy.

That's beside the point, as the girls (regardless of their age) are supposed to be used in the service of "the state". A handler taking advantage of a brainwashed subordinate would make everyone uncomfortable.

I'll go with MP5's answer: 'First gens? Probably wiped from their minds and generally not mentioned. Second Gens? they might know a thing or two...'
Nachtsider wrote: 'My guess is they're expected to deal with 'the birds and the bees' like any father ought to with their young daughter,...'
Not sure I agree. The general policy of the SWA is that these children
(1st gen) are tools to be used then discarded.
(2nd gens, perhaps more flexible due to the reality of their age)
Affection like Jose displayed was tolerated, but not necessarily encouraged. I think the drugs were expected to control to some extent the feelings of self awareness including sexual awakening.
To compare cyborgs that are ordered to kill for the remainder of their short lives, being kept in secrecy from the rest of the population with regular kids is not accurate I think. Probably why Lauro disagreed with Jose in their brief conversation, as his more affectionate attitude conflicted with the briefing the agents had been given concerning the mechanical children's mission value and purpose.
True, other agents were nudging in different directions, reflecting their own opinions about these 'mechanical children'. No doubt that is why Raballo tried to reveal the truth to all of Italy. However, Jean's reaction seems indicative of the SWA's stance concerning the human rights of cyborgs. Jean never commented on Raballo's morality, instead focused only on his betrayal of the agency. Knowledge of sexuality might be unavoidable, but I think the drugs are expected to reduce or at least delay that in order to increase their efficiency as weapons first, people second.

Hmmmm... As a male, I cannot speak about the reproductive development of girls, I am also no psychologist, but I had some basic idea of how reproduction worked at about 'Etta's age, and definitely by Triela's age, I just didn't really think about it, I was just biology.

As per how much their handler's teach them, except for Sandro, probably not any more than maybe some basic biology and, in Claes' case, anything she learned from a combination of romance novels and biology textbooks.

As per experimentation, as you have mentioned, it is possible. As per their relationship with their handlers, I suspect, except for Sandro and Petra, I'd say it might range from brother-sister relationships to more "puppy love", but nothing serious.

SPARTAN 119 wrote:Hmmmm... As a male, I cannot speak about the reproductive development of girls, I am also no psychologist, but I had some basic idea of how reproduction worked at about 'Etta's age, and definitely by Triela's age, I just didn't really think about it, I was just biology.

That's reasonable. I can remember no point in my life when I did not understand the mechanics of sex, and even an intense interest in sex hit fairly early (I blame Catherine Bach and her legendary "Daisy Duke" shorts...positively life altering when I was in the first grade) but the drive to actually have sex with girls I actually had access to (i.e. not in movies or TV) did not strike until about 12-13 years of age.

Being that I've never actually been a 10-16 year old girl I can't testify with any accuracy as to how my experience translates to the fairer sex but it seems logical that cyborgs of the Henrietta/Rico/Angelica age would experience a familial, non-sexual love...Petrushka & her coevals would easily become sexually fixated on the men closest to them and Triela...caught in the middle...would be confused as hell.

Being that I've never actually been a 10-16 year old girl...

So at what point in your life were you first a 1-9 year old and then a 17+ year old girl?

Some feedback I gave for Voodoo's "Palermo Roundup" is relevant to this thread.

Professor Voodoo wrote: "Oh come on, it's just for fun" Petra teased, flipping through the pages of a particularly hardcore publication until she came to the centerfold, which she pulled out at full length and showed to her partner.

An interesting touch here; Petra still seems innocent despite her 'vast experience'. Sex is just an enjoyable activity she does with Sandro. There's nothing naughty or wicked about it, as how could her handler be asking her to do anything that's morally wrong? As a conditioned girl she's isolated from all the baggage society dumps on teenage sexuality. To Petra it's as natural to sleep with an older man as it is to be shooting terrorists, whereas Agapita would (subconsciously or otherwise) pick up her handler's more conservative views on the subject.

Incidentally I wouldn't advise reading "One Hundred Strokes of the Brush Before Bed" by Melissa P. as research into what underage Italian girls think about sex. Before you tend to regard Triela's view on love the way Nachtsider does - after reading it your fanfic goes all Danjo3. Anyway, it helped inspire "Infidelity", so I can't complain.

Odon wrote:Some feedback I gave for Voodoo's "Palermo Roundup" is relevant to this thread.

Professor Voodoo wrote: "Oh come on, it's just for fun" Petra teased, flipping through the pages of a particularly hardcore publication until she came to the centerfold, which she pulled out at full length and showed to her partner.

An interesting touch here; Petra still seems innocent despite her 'vast experience'. Sex is just an enjoyable activity she does with Sandro. There's nothing naughty or wicked about it, as how could her handler be asking her to do anything that's morally wrong? As a conditioned girl she's isolated from all the baggage society dumps on teenage sexuality. To Petra it's as natural to sleep with an older man as it is to be shooting terrorists, whereas Agapita would (subconsciously or otherwise) pick up her handler's more conservative views on the subject.

Incidentally I wouldn't advise reading "One Hundred Strokes of the Brush Before Bed" by Melissa P. as research into what underage Italian girls think about sex. Before you tend to regard Triela's view on love the way Nachtsider does - after reading it your fanfic goes all Danjo3. Anyway, it helped inspire "Infidelity", so I can't complain.

Chapter 11 of UN Resolution, Francesca does 1000 brush strokes and that's normal for her!

I chose to take a different approach with Jamie and Michael, mainly to create drama, but also to approach the mental aspect of being a victim of violence.

By the time Jamie actually understood her feelings for Michael, she had regained enough understanding of her previous self to question what loving a man would require. There wasn't just a moral aspect, but also the very real remains of her experiences and the shattered emotions that stemmed from it.

“She couldn’t know what it’s like, so I really
can’t blame her. If anyone ever touched me again, even Michael, I don’t think I
would be able to live any longer. I cringe inside at the thought of it, and for
her to say that I’m the type to flaunt it and give it away...”

Given time and love, even that wound might heal. But to say that love can only be, or must involve sexual intimacy, I think that's a bit shallow and underestimates the human heart.

Though Voodoo may disagree on the subject, he did add this to my GsG:Rachel Web Comic...

Here's a thought: How might the conditioning affect those girls who do know what sex is about? One would imagine they'd be rather submissive sexually, but perhaps their subconscious might rebel, especially if they become aware of the power that sexual attractiveness gives them.

Odon wrote:Here's a thought: How might the conditioning affect those girls who do know what sex is about?

It'll make them compelled to do whatever the hell their handler might demand of them in bed.

Nachtsider wrote:

Odon wrote:Here's a thought: How might the conditioning affect those girls who do know what sex is about?

It'll make them compelled to do whatever the hell their handler might demand of them in bed.

And they would completely ignore that nagging little voice in the back of heads that told them what was happening was wrong.

Danjo3 wrote:

Nachtsider wrote:

Odon wrote:Here's a thought: How might the conditioning affect those girls who do know what sex is about?

It'll make them compelled to do whatever the hell their handler might demand of them in bed.

And they would completely ignore that nagging little voice in the back of heads that told them what was happening was wrong.

I have been saying that this is the abuse 'Sandro is doing to Petra since the beginning.

In a stalled fanfic I was trying to write, Sandro was pleased but somewhat creeped out by the fact that Petra always orgasms at the same time he does, so keyed is she to his own needs.

Not sure how realistic that would be for the 2nd Gen model, though I can definitely see it happening with a first Gen, whose conditioning works on a more subconscious level.

That's... a lot of detail you've got there.

Well, no. Detail is when I start describing "her smooth luscious thighs" and "her eyes wide with the tumult of undescribable passion."

And there was something about a tub of ice cream too.

Odon wrote:And there was something about a tub of ice cream too.

Henrietta: Did somebody say ice cream?

Elio: Wrong context! Get yer ass back to a "G-rated" thread, lass!

Henrietta: (trudging off) Aww man. I never get to hang around for the exciting threads.

Odon wrote:In a stalled fanfic I was trying to write, Sandro was pleased but somewhat creeped out by the fact that Petra always orgasms at the same time he does, so keyed is she to his own needs.

Not sure how realistic that would be for the 2nd Gen model, though I can definitely see it happening with a first Gen, whose conditioning works on a more subconscious level.

Well, if you're up to it, toss it into the Section 2 Smut Locker thread. I've already done one for Jay and Allison, and so far it's the only thing there. I'm not so sure I'm quite ready to write another lemon, so...

Marisa: I heard someone say "exciting!" What's going on?!

Elio: ABSOLUTELY not! Out! Out out!

Marisa: *pouts* MassfrackinretchinbarfineggoramaCHEESE...

Actually it wasn't that smutty (I was just kidding about the ice cream). Sandro and Hilshire are in the observation corridor of the hospital wing, waiting for their cyborgs to come out of surgery. Sandro is high on painkillers so he starts going on about his relationship with Petra, along with some cynical observations on the cyborg/handler relationship that Hilshire really doesn't want to hear - not because it's full of lurid detail, but because it brings up Hilshire's own doubts on just how genuine his surrogate father/daughter relationship with Triela is.

Odon, that just might be well the case. If the cyborg's are so keyed up on their handler's needs, it just might be possible. But the whole thing is negated in Danjo's universe where certain cyborgs seem to orgasm when it comes... naturally, like the rest of us, though for them the time might be shorter since their senses are more hyped up and thus so should this be too.

I would agree to Danjo's model on this, but you are now adding a new facet to the technology. It would explain the interactions of some cyborgs to their handlers and to each other in both canon and fanfiction.

Odon wrote: 'Well, no. Detail is when I start describing "her smooth luscious thighs" and "her eyes wide with the tumult of undescribable passion."'
and: 'And there was something about a tub of ice cream too.'
WRITE IT man, do it!!!! ( I confess I caved at the ice cream, Napolitano anyone?)

Ladies and Gentle peoples, I present thee quote of this thread:
"MassfrackinretchinbarfineggoramaCHEESE..."
(credit Marisa, courtesy of Officer_Charon)

I just hope that's not Petra's exclamation during um, you know: 'oh, OHHH! Sandro, I..... MassfrackinretchinbarfineggoramaCHEESE... ohhhh.......
Sandro: Um....ok...... gotta remember to have a chat with the conditioning doctors......

tremec6speed wrote:I just hope that's not Petra's exclamation during um, you know: 'oh, OHHH! Sandro, I..... MassfrackinretchinbarfineggoramaCHEESE... ohhhh.......

That reminds me of the scene from Cherry 2000 !!!


If it dont work, try: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6KJtFZoflc

Odon wrote:

You know I never before realized what an epic wedgie Petra must be suffering in this scene.

ElfenMagix wrote:Odon, that just might be well the case. If the cyborg's are so keyed up on their handler's needs, it just might be possible. But the whole thing is negated in Danjo's universe where certain cyborgs seem to orgasm when it comes... naturally, like the rest of us, though for them the time might be shorter since their senses are more hyped up and thus so should this be too.

I would agree to Danjo's model on this, but you are now adding a new facet to the technology. It would explain the interactions of some cyborgs to their handlers and to each other in both canon and fanfiction.

Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting that the girls can only orgasm when their handler does, but that it's an unintended side affect of their conditioning, like a sexual fetish.

Odon wrote:

ElfenMagix wrote:Odon, that just might be well the case. If the cyborg's are so keyed up on their handler's needs, it just might be possible. But the whole thing is negated in Danjo's universe where certain cyborgs seem to orgasm when it comes... naturally, like the rest of us, though for them the time might be shorter since their senses are more hyped up and thus so should this be too.

I would agree to Danjo's model on this, but you are now adding a new facet to the technology. It would explain the interactions of some cyborgs to their handlers and to each other in both canon and fanfiction.

Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting that the girls can only orgasm when their handler does, but that it's an unintended side affect of their conditioning, like a sexual fetish.

I got it exactly as you said.

Fetishes... that 'mission closet' better get locked down tightly lest some of those costumes come back erm, 'soiled.' The second-gens might get ideas, as well-- I can see Kara and Allison practicing the art of 'Hadaka Apron' when cooking for their favorite guys, and perhaps roping in a few of their sister second-gens, as well...

Spoiler:

MP5 wrote:Fetishes... that 'mission closet' better get locked down tightly lest some of those costumes come back erm, 'soiled.' The second-gens might get ideas, as well-- I can see Kara and Allison practicing the art of 'Hadaka Apron' when cooking for their favorite guys, and perhaps roping in a few of their sister second-gens, as well...

Spoiler:

Kara: "I'll just don the outfit I wore on Iron Chef when I went up against Cat Cora in Battle Bon-Bon."

Spoiler:

I think a lot of it depends on the girl and what she was like before coming to the Agency. In the B&B universe, I’ve always held that the conditioning drugs increase a girl’s sex drive, but if she was not very sexual in her old life, then it wouldn’t be very noticeable. Britney was always a highly sexual girl, and the drugs just made it all the worse. It’s to the point where if she goes without it for too long, she starts to suffer something akin to withdrawal symptoms. But as I said, it might depend on the girl, Britney being an extreme example.

Well one theory as to why people pick up sexual fetishes is that it's displacement from an adult with whom a sexual relationship would be inappropriate - that's the girls all over.

So I figure: Triela (bears), Rico (guns), Claes (books), Henrietta (Jose's shirt).

Kiskaloo wrote:Kara: "I'll just don the outfit I wore on Iron Chef when I went up against Cat Cora in Battle Bon-Bon."

I always cringe when I see something like this. I mean it's sexy and all, but you always worry she's going to get hot fat spilled on that luscious body.