Re: gun nut thread

[maverick375]

It's not really any different from having an extra upper for a basic AR lying around.

For a true utility rifle, the COBB MCR is the way to go.
http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2900/2993.htm
There are 4 series which represent different chamber size groups. To change calibers within the same group, you only change the bolt and barrel. The 100 series can change from a 9mm to a 50 Beowulf like that.
To change between series (such as 100 to 400), you change the entire upper and magazine well. So you go from 9mm to 458 Win Mag.

[Nachtsider]

.50 Beo is

[Guest]

I wish I could get myself a live gun.

...although BB gun replicas are nice to scare some friends who came to visit

[West Nile]

I wish I could get myself a live gun.

...although BB gun replicas are nice to scare some friends who came to visit

wait so what is the legal age for getting a gun there?

[Kiskaloo]

I wish I could get myself a live gun.

...although BB gun replicas are nice to scare some friends who came to visit

wait so what is the legal age for getting a gun there?

In theory, personal possession of weapons is illegal in Japan. There is, however, a rather long and involved licensing process for hunters to obtain a license to own and use a rifle or shotgun.

In practice, Japanese gun control enforcement is relatively weak. However, the population as a whole is relatively "gun averse" so even though you could get a personal weapon if you really wanted one and made the effort, most citizens have no desire (or choose not to try and obtain one).

[Nachtsider]

Wonder why.

[Kiskaloo]

Wonder why.

A low crime rate probably helps. And a low gun ownership ratio probably helps keep that rate low.

I also expect much of the country was effectively de-armed during the Allied Occupation and the population never felt the need to re-arm once they returned to self-government.

[Tommygunner70]

Wonder why.

A low crime rate probably helps. And a low gun ownership ratio probably helps keep that rate low.

Low Crime rate?

From what I've heard and seen, the 'out in the open' crime rate is low. The cop presence on the street is minor in Hakone. Though I have to admit that most crimes are committed in a back alley.

I also expect much of the country was effectively de-armed during the Allied Occupation and the population never felt the need to re-arm once they returned to self-government.

Some veterans still cherished their old service fire arm. Like Sora's great grandfather cherished his in secrecy. Though there is no more 8mm ammunition to go around, the old Nambu Type 14 service pistol still remains in her family as a keep sake.

[ElfenMagix]

Most societies that have open carry what you like gun/weapons laws have low crime rates while those with strict gun control laws have high crime rates.

In Vermount, New Hampshire and Maine, where you can carry concealed anything you want, crime there is virtually non existant. Nobody wants to mug Granny if everyone knew that Granny was packing a .357, or any possible witnesses who do carry might come shooting in her aide.

In New York City- Crime is rampant. Dont believe the numbers that are being publlished saying that crime has been the lowest since 1965... it has not. I'll give the boys in blue (the police) their respect, but they do not act fast enough to deter crime, and when I volunteered in the Aux. Police Force, I often found myself in 10-13 situations (Officer In Need Of Emergency Assistance) where no officer came to my aide until "Things were safe to do so." The police here are scared. Period. I see it in their faces everyday and wish them the best of luck.

Despite the laws in other countries that ban guns from its citizenry, people are still getting killed by gun fire. "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will own them." In some cases, people in these countries are killed in higher rates that people in car/road accidents of that same country. If the police can not carry guns, then this adds to the outlaw's power.

I may look at the dark side of things, but I see it because it exists and I respect it for what it is. I wont let it coward me in fear, and I try to live a clean life as to the best of my ability. But some things ate damn difficult to do at times.

BTW- I dont advocate Gun Control. I do advocate Gun Education. With gun education, one can properly decide if guns are right for them, and if they ever become in contact with one, at least they know what to do. Just like one can with driver's education and cars. Due to the gun education from my mom, I have since age 6.

[Kiskaloo]

Well considering that you can live in New York and make a quick run up to New England to grab a gun and come back, I am not sure that's exactly strong empirical evidence that the more guns a community has, the less crime it experiences.

I'd be more interested to see how the crime rate of countries with strict(er) gun control laws like Japan, the United Kingdom and Canada have compared to countries with loose(r) gun control laws.

[ElfenMagix]

Well considering that you can live in New York and make a quick run up to New England to grab a gun and come back, I am not sure that's exactly strong empirical evidence that the more guns a community has, the less crime it experiences.

This only works if guns are known or thought to be in the area. Crime in areas where guns are readily available are low, where places where guns are difficult to obtains have high crime rate regardless of owners secretly own and use them. Criminals are willing take such chances if they believe the chances are low in running into a gun owner.

I'd be more interested to see how the crime rate of countries with strict(er) gun control laws like Japan, the United Kingdom and Canada have compared to countries with loose(r) gun control laws.

That would be difficult, because of the ratio of population. The USA has 190+M people and X% are registered gun owners. UK, Japan, others- their populations are smaller than the total sum of registered gun owners in the US. You would need to do some serious Ratio and Matrix Table Math to figure it out.

[Awinnell]

the 2002 murder rate for the US Per 100,000 people was 5.7,the UK murder rate was 2.03.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homicide_rate

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

http://danmark.wordpress.com/2006/07/01/last-comparison-of-crime-rates-between-nations-ever/

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/3231.html



the muder rate in the US is six times that of Japan and double that of the UK,so armed societies aren't always the safest,though i should point out you are more likely to get burgled in the UK though its not usually with violence

[ElfenMagix]

the 2002 murder rate for the US Per 100,000 people was 5.7,the UK murder rate was 2.03.

1) Of these numbers, what are the numbers for guns as compared too a baseball bat, knife or running them over with your lorry? Those are the numbers we're looking for.

2) Assuming, that THESE numbers are for firearms... 2.03 per every 100K is high for a country that is supposed to have 0 guns.

the muder rate in the US is six times that of Japan and double that of the UK,so armed societies aren't always the safest,though i should point out you are more likely to get burgled in the UK though its not usually with violence

The US has always had a Violent Past. But I dare you to compare with places like Mexico, and other nations in Central and South America.

[Tommygunner70]

Assuming, that THESE numbers are for firearms... 2.03 per every 100K is high for a country that is supposed to have 0 guns.

Well you gotta remember that fire arms are often stolen from registered gun owners and are then used in crimes. Then there is also the case of a registered gun owner to be pushed past his limits to the extend that he would use his firearm on the source of irritation in his life which is the wife most of the time.

At least, that's the most common type of shooting that I heard of in Holland. Not much else going on concerning firearms.

[Awinnell]

Gun Deaths - International Comparisons

Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
"BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" border=0 cellSpacing=0 borderColor=#111111 cellPadding=0 width=537]

	Homicide	Suicide	Other (inc Accident)
USA (2001)	3.98	5.92	0.36
Italy (1997)	0.81	1.1	0.07
Switzerland (1998)	0.50	5.8	0.10
Canada (2002)	0.4	2.0	0.04
Finland (2003)	0.35	4.45	0.10
Australia (2001)	0.24	1.34	0.10
France (2001)	0.21	3.4	0.49
England/Wales (2002)	0.15	0.2	0.03
Scotland (2002)	0.06	0.2	0.02
Japan (2002)	0.02	0.04	0

I admit that the years are off a bit but thats the Government in questions fault !

[tsundere9kagami2]

What!?
Everyone wants a .50 cal BMG smg.


-someones signature

[maverick375]

First, in any chart you have to get the same time-frame, because the numbers change with the culture, and the culture changes by the year.

Second, what is the break-down of those figures? How reliable are they? Are they being skewed for political reasons? Are the same details being taken into account?

The FBI releases an annual report detailing a year's crime stats, and the details contained in it are the most accurate, as they differentiate between homicide, suicide, and recently have put more emphasis on defensive useage stats in regards to firearms.

I've looked over a lot of different "stats" in the past few years that I've been a hardcore gunnie, and a few things stick out that anyone looking between the reports (with a non-biased eye) will notice immediately:

1:Most of the reports (aside from the FBI) have a political slant, especially the ones from the VPC and Brady bunch. I'm sure the same thing goes on in other countries as well. This usually takes the form of considering a 23yr old gang-banger as being a 'minor' or 'kid'. A gang member, be it 12 or 50, that is gunned down by a rival gang while in colors, is not an innocent. ALso, the VPC has used odd calculations between sample years to get the data they want and then show the press. It has been proven by too many real journalists to be simply an error, but is an actual policy.

2:Inner Cities have more crime, and thus more gun crime. This is a cultural issue, not an availiability issue, as the UK has shown. When you ban things, they are still availiable, just harder to get. Black markets spring up, and a determined criminal is going to do what they want, despite the law. D.C. has a horrible gun-crime rate, despite their long-standing ban. The mayor coalition blames it on the gun shops, alleging that the 'good ol boys' are supplying. I'm sure there are a few that have, but the ATF keeps extremely close tabs on licensed dealers and just like the "US supplies assault weapons to Mexico" crap, it has been proven to be exponentially smaller a problem than Bloomberg and his posse say.

3:There is a lot more non-gun crime than gun crime. How often are people screaming to ban knives and ball-bats (in the US, UK has their own problems), because they are used more often than guns.

4:Most defensive deterrence using a firearm goes unreported. Thugs walk up with hostile intent, victim uncovers gun without drawing, thugs walk away. This happens many times daily in the US and is often not reported as an encounter as it should be. Obviously this doesn't get included in the data, the same as unreported rape does not.

Finally, 5: given the sheer number of guns in the US (80+million), obviously owned by a slightly smaller number of people... If every gun is a death waiting to happen, why aren't the numbers higher? The reason is because owning a gun does not turn you into a frothing killer. Only a small percentage of guns are used to kill people, and a good portion of those is defensively. More innocent people die in car accidents from drunken drivers, than in shootings. More kids drown in the tub or pool than total people are shot.

When you get right down to it, stats can say anything the writer wants them to say, given the right working. Again, I point to the FBI stats on crime as the best definitive source because they do their homework and have the best data set coming into them. Even then there is a disclaimer at the front of their reports saying that their numbers are not entirely representative because of reporting factors.

As far as the UK having fewer 'violent' home invasions and robberies... If you like it, go ahead and keep it, but I will never trust my life or that of others to someone who is willfully breaking the law for personal gain. If that makes me an evil person, so be it. But being helpless in the eyes of a criminal never got anyone a medal, saved a life, prevented the mental and physical scars from rape, or took a hardened in-and-out criminal off the street.

[maverick375]

as an additional, given that the US has 37times more people and 38 times more guns (both in the millions), than Switzerland, I consider the additional 29545 deaths per year a relatively small number, especially since much of that is resulting from crime in cities where the population is exponentially higher than surrounding areas.

This is all assuming that the data above is not skewed like the UN reports tend to be, see:global warming.

[emperor]

What!?
Everyone wants a .50 cal BMG smg.


-someones signature

Colt can make this for ya!

[LoC978]

Then there's the work stress factor. I never met many Europeans who work more than a 40 hour week. 50-60 hour weeks seems the norm among most middle class folks I know here (then there are those poor saps who pull 80+... not that I would know anything about that [/sarcasm])...
and shooting people is a great way to blow off steam

[boomer_gonz]

What!?
Everyone wants a .50 cal BMG smg.


-someones signature

Colt can make this for ya!

And it will jam with every other round. Call Armalite, they made the very first M-16's and they worked. Once Colt took over, 'make it cheap make 'em in bulk'.

As per the previous discussion I'm going to have to agree with Elfen. Another example to take nto account is Switzerland. Their gun laws are more than a bit liberal and it's not uncommon to see someone walking down the street with their service weapon in tow. Are you going to rob the grocery store if you see two guys walking in there with shouldered SiG 550's? I don't think so.

In fact most crimes involving firearms usually involve domestic violence in the case of service or civillian arms and illegally acquired arms for other acts of criminal activity...like a drive by in a Range Rover.

[Awinnell]

ok ,facts can be fudged, but how many people do you know who have been shot at ? (outside the police or military)

[ElfenMagix]

ok ,facts can be fudged, but how many people do you know who have been shot at ? (outside the police or military)

In truth?
Including myself?
Over 200, and that is nearly everyone I know.
Deaths: >135 (about 10% being accidents or suicides.)
Wounded: >50 (about 5% being accidental. 1 = me, which is a long story that I wont say here)
Shot at and missed: >300 (including innocent bystanders.)

Understand that where I come from crime is high, and I'm one of the few that took my skills and talents not to allow this nieghborhood to drag me into a wooden box. But I have seen many friends and family die. But crimes involving knives, cars, deliberate drug overdoses (including poisoned drinks) and even window/roof pushes, they easily double, if not triple what mayhem I have seen with guns...

I wish my mom did not sell it, but back in the heydays of the 1970's she made an amour suit of mail made from the old fashion beer tabs... one for herself, one for me and one for my bro. She sold them for a pretty penny when we out grew them. She would have made more but the old fashion beer tab pulls changed to the crap shit that is on cans now.

Even today, at work where I work with kids and some of their parents, I still get threats of death and violence to be inflicted upon me. With the kids I tell them that I'll rip their arms off and beat them with the bloody stump. With the parents, I have told them to "Make sure that I am dead because I will pick your ass up and throw out the nearest window." Its gotten to a point that even the principal does not know if I'm kidding or not. I tell her, "When it comes to my life and and threats to it- I do not kid."

Funny... just the other day, I was threatened by the school's Parent Coordinator because of a disagreement we had. She stated that she would get her son "who is in the Bloods Gang" to get after me. Later that afternoon he arrived with a few friends. We stared at each other and shook hands and he and his friends walked away. His mom stopped him and asked about beating me up to scare me. His response to her was- "He's that crazy guy from ______ Houses. We dont mess with him or his family." They remember the day when one of them mugged my mom: Leon, my Bro and I went knocking on a few doors and handcuffed a few assholes to the lampost outside the building. Nevermind what we had for arms- the police looked at us and ran away.

[maverick375]

Elfen, I can applaud your will to be different, even better, than the norm for the environment that surrounded you. I guess my question is this: What is is going to take to change those who choose to live the gang/welfare lives to a life that is truly productive? What was different in your life, what point did you decide not to follow the norm there?

I know it's an odd question, but sometimes I need a reminder that amidst the chaos and darkness there is the opportunity for order and light.

[Kiskaloo]

Mythbusters tonight did a few myths with the Russian SKS rifle and a mega-powerful revolver (I am guessing something that shoots .500 S&W Magnum).

[West Nile]

ok ,facts can be fudged, but how many people do you know who have been shot at ? (outside the police or military)

i can't count anymore, given i spent more than half my life hanging out in the hospital trauma ward, people found me creepy by then when i wouldn't flinch for the brutal stuff on TV

[Awinnell]

in my case, none at all

[West Nile]

so what is the reason for asking?

[Awinnell]

just comparing the likelyhood of being shot at in an armed versus unarmed society

[boomer_gonz]

ok ,facts can be fudged, but how many people do you know who have been shot at ? (outside the police or military)

There is still a scar on my ankle where a .22 took a piece of bone with it on a ricochet. I grew up an a small city where there are literally more firemen than there are police. With folks having to be their own police force, shit happened all the time and it wasn't uncommon to find a body walking to or from school. To be honest I find myself fortunate that I've only been hit once. I've been caught in the middle of crossfires and drive-by's so often that it's actually safer to get around through those dark, scary alleys most sane people wouldn't go near.

My grandma(father's mother) is always told how lucky she is that most of her men are still alive, but it wasn't luck. It was what my uncles Marco and Mario brought back from Korea and later them and my uncles David and Juan brought back from Vietnam. It helped us survive the warzone my hometown became when then Gov. Reagan(bastard) thought it would be an excellent idea to build max. security prisons near or very near small cities and towns.

Combined with what my Grandma(mother's mother) taught me, it helped me survive until I could get out. Today, there's no more family bullshit and the prison was downgraded about six or seven years ago to min. security; but the era left it's mark on the town. Today, you walk down the streets at any given time and it's like a ghost town. Thre's scarcly any work, and most of them are too scared to walk out of their doors anyway.

On that note, I can understand where Elfen's coming from. When in such an environment you have three choices. Leave from said environment, succumb to it, or become something more.

To quote my Grandma(mother's mother), "First you learn to survive, then you learn to live. Living is just surviving with a few luxuries added on."

[Tommygunner70]

I can understand where Boomer and Elfen are comming from.

I've been shot at more then once though, Thank god that good shots are a rarity in my old home town. Though a .38 would sometimes strike a lucky shot or just dumb luck because of ricochet.

[Kiskaloo]

Ah the advantages of living in the High Rent District.

[boomer_gonz]

LOLZ, that reminds me of something my dad told me the other day.

"Son, you've moved out of Avenal; you make more in a month than I do in a year, and yet you still live in the fscking hood. What the hell is wrong with you?!"

I guess the old saying strikes true. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[West Nile]

ow, yeah injury and death by gun is rather common here, specially with illegible gun laws, dirty police and stupid police who kill time by shooting their live rounds into the air. there's a reason why i ride bullet proof

[Nachtsider]

Hey guys, what's the white gun called?

[Kiskaloo]

Looks like some kind of automatic shotgun.

[Darkstar117]

It's a Monolith Arms P-12 Shotgun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_P-12

[Nachtsider]

Ah, right. I knew it was a shotgun of some kind, but had no idea of the make. Thanks!

[Kiskaloo]

rusty-spring and I used to joke that Kara and Laine followed the philosophy of "one magazine, one kill", so maybe this new hunting rifle will help in that regard.

[Awinnell]

The British Army has opted to exchange its venerable old Browning Hi powers for the Glock 17,primarily due to it having a larger ammo capacity and being lighter

[John_234]

Also probably easier to shoot, I'd imagine. Though, I think one mag, one kill is kinda common IRL. People generally go pew pew until the gun goes click click.

[BleepinFireman]

Also probably easier to shoot, I'd imagine. Though, I think one mag, one kill is kinda common IRL. People generally go pew pew until the gun goes click click.

Thats when they get shot by people who don't do that and conserve ammunition

[Alfisti]

The British Army has opted to exchange its venerable old Browning Hi powers for the Glock 17,primarily due to it having a larger ammo capacity and being lighter

As someone whom hails a little from the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school, I do still quite enjoy that the Australian Defence Force's standard sidearm remains the Hi-Power... though I think our special forces are issued with HK USPs.

[Three Dog]

The British Army has opted to exchange its venerable old Browning Hi powers for the Glock 17,primarily due to it having a larger ammo capacity and being lighter

As someone whom hails a little from the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school, I do still quite enjoy that the Australian Defence Force's standard sidearm remains the Hi-Power... though I think our special forces are issued with HK USPs.

Yeah, they use the USP. I can't remember what calibre though.

[John_234]

Also probably easier to shoot, I'd imagine. Though, I think one mag, one kill is kinda common IRL. People generally go pew pew until the gun goes click click.

Thats when they get shot by people who don't do that and conserve ammunition

Well, of course. But real life rarely works out perfectly. People move erratically, hits / misses aren't always apparent and bullets aren't reliable with their stopping power. Generally speaking, people fire what they have.

The British Army has opted to exchange its venerable old Browning Hi powers for the Glock 17,primarily due to it having a larger ammo capacity and being lighter

As someone whom hails a little from the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school, I do still quite enjoy that the Australian Defence Force's standard sidearm remains the Hi-Power... though I think our special forces are issued with HK USPs.

The BHP is a nice handgun, but IMO, it's probably not the most ergonomically ideal of handguns for general issue. It's really a bit of a secondary issue since handguns are small fry as far as logistics goes, but there is probably room for improvement over the BHP.

The British Army has opted to exchange its venerable old Browning Hi powers for the Glock 17,primarily due to it having a larger ammo capacity and being lighter

As someone whom hails a little from the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school, I do still quite enjoy that the Australian Defence Force's standard sidearm remains the Hi-Power... though I think our special forces are issued with HK USPs.

Yeah, they use the USP. I can't remember what calibre though.

If it's issued by a NATO nation it's probably a 9x19.

[Il Direttore]

https://plus.google.com/100792414712087671376/posts/ThLfBT5KXYG

This happened. Can someone explain what's happened? I'm confused.

[BleepinFireman]

Well, Someone got really excited and like it says, put a Beta-C magazine on a Ukranian Vepr RPK

[Il Direttore]

That's it? Also there was something about mods? I wasn't really following.

[BleepinFireman]

Well That's basically it. The mods involved is a magazine conversion made by Definitive Arms. This allows the user to use an M-16 type magazine in an AK style rifle. This is somewhat cheaper for those who cannot afford tons and tons of 5.56x45mm versions of the AK magazine. Personally, me being an AK purist, I dislike this. But as a gun nut, I think this is a good conversion for those who are too lazy to procure AK mags in 5.56m

[Il Direttore]

Oh. Okay then. Is this something that would be considered fairly common and generally applicable then? Or do most people not bother? Does such a modification cause any substantial changes to the weapon (though it seems like it wouldn't)?

[BleepinFireman]

The Vepr in 5.56mm is made to take 5.56mm NATO (US .223), so converting to use M-16 Magazines wouldn't hurt the gun at all. This modification is fairly popular with people who have both AR-15 and AK type rifles. I would recommend this if you have clear access to AR magazines, or if you want a different look to your gun

[BleepinFireman]

So I live in the USA right now, and recently, I read things that a "minigun", which is a human portable version of the M61 Vulcan, is legal to own. Is that true and Why is it legal to own?

[Il Direttore]

The Minigun isn't actually man portable, it's an emplacement weapon designed for vehicle mounting. 

That aside, the reason why it's legal is apparently because it went into production before some landmark gun law that prohibited full auto weapons of some kind. 

Not that this is all that useful, since it costs something like 500 dollars to fire for a minute? Something obscene.

[BleepinFireman]

But for people living next to it, wouldnt it be scary knowing a guy owns a gun that can cut trees?

[Il Direttore]

I mean, where you gonna get the ammo?

[BleepinFireman]

True

[Il Direttore]

https://plus.google.com/100792414712087671376/posts/UkobMwCyX6c

I'm amused by this. That's all.

[Il Direttore]

Anybody know if it's at all safe to use civilian .308 Winchester in an M14 receiver? If this is not the case, can an M14 receiver be modified to accept a .308 winchester safely?

[maverick375]

Shouldn't be a problem. Usually it's the other way that is an issue, i.e. using 5.56 in a .223 chambered rifle. NATO ammo is based on higher pressures and looser tolerances than civi in general, and also the higher risk of an somewhat over-charged round among the mass of ammunition being fed. I'd have to go into my books for the exact specs, but a 5.56 might not chamber in a .223 that is bench-rest tight. I think the neck is just a tad too thick and can spike pressures. It WOULD chamber in a run of the mill .223 off the shelf. Possibly to dangerous effect over time or if the construction is sub-par. That's why I usually advise people getting a plinker to buy a 5.56 chambering.
In regards to the .308, it's virtually identical to the NATO spec, so it won't matter.

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