Re: Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness?

by Three Dog Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 2:24

In the second season anime, Bernardo gives Beatrice a towel before she breaks through a brick wall (to find explosives). This indicates to me that the girls are susceptible to "bloody knuckles" (or palm in this case) when hitting a hard, abrasive surface.

Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 Towel10

Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 Towel10

Il Teatrino; episode 8[/quote]
Gah! Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 367

I feel like an ignoranus for not remember that.

Crazyidiot78 wrote:Good point, that being the case then there would have to be some sort of
weak spot in the skin for an injection to take place since anything
designed to make the skin more resilent would also make it harder for
injections

Aninnell wrote:not necessarily,a sharp pointed object(like an arrow or crossbow bolt)
will pierce layered woven armour so a syringe would penetrate the girls
skin

CI78, I didn't know you were a teacher, cool Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 2752

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Anyway, Provided the needle point was sharp enough, a lot of force wouldn't be required. Test it for yourself. Get the blunt end of a sqrewdriver (handle) and and push it on your hand, get the sharp end of same screwdriver and push it into your hand also using equall force. Which end hurt more? The pointy. This is because the blunt end has a greater surface are to spread the force over, while the sharp end has a very small surface area by comparison, so the force is more concertrated (HAHA! I knew there was a reason I'm taking physics!). I agree with Anninell that the needle could go through, since it has a very, very small surface area over which rto spread the force, making it superconcentrate.

by Three Dog Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 5:24

All this stuff's got me wondering, are there some injuries that the cyborgs would be able to get fixed by a regular docrtor? Thier injuries only being able to be reapaired back at the Agency, which is in Rome, seems like a design flaw. What if they are in a neighboring country, they would have to get flown all the way back to rome. Dunno, just seems a bit inconveniant and inpractical.

by Alfisti Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 6:23

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:All this stuff's got me wondering, are there some injuries that the cyborgs would be able to get fixed by a regular docrtor? Thier injuries only being able to be reapaired back at the Agency, which is in Rome, seems like a design flaw. What if they are in a neighboring country, they would have to get flown all the way back to rome. Dunno, just seems a bit inconveniant and inpractical.

I dunno mate, mean: do you really want to send the multi-million Euro piece of top-secret, deep-black clandestine technology, the discovery of which could probably get Italy black-listed by most of the westernized world or at least cause a major foreign-policy issue to a regular, foreign GP? I mean really?

I know my own take on the SWA tends to be one of the more paranoid ones going, but I doubt you'd ever see Monty walk into a regular doctor's practice, even if they could help her.

I guess what I'm saying is that, all things considered, only being able to fix them back in Rome probably isn't a major issue. There are other constraints which would prevent them going to a regular doctor anyway.

by Three Dog Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 6:31

Alfisti wrote:
Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:All this stuff's got me wondering, are there some injuries that the cyborgs would be able to get fixed by a regular docrtor? Thier injuries only being able to be reapaired back at the Agency, which is in Rome, seems like a design flaw. What if they are in a neighboring country, they would have to get flown all the way back to rome. Dunno, just seems a bit inconveniant and inpractical.
I dunno mate, mean: do you really want to send the multi-million Euro piece of top-secret, deep-black clandestine technology, the discovery of which could probably get Italy black-listed by most of the westernized world or at least cause a major foreign-policy issue to a regular, foreign GP? I mean really?

I was thinking more on the situation where there's an an all out war or something, maybe they're somehwere like the middle east, and having them flown all the way back to Italy would be a bit of a waste of resources, however, the injury still lowers thier combat effectiveness. Or perhaps in an army base that already knows that they are cyborgs (Like the Foereign Legion in one of my Fics), so that they can get fixed there. Saves time, money, and possibly lives.
I wasn't thinking that one of 'em scraped thier knee or something and the local GP is closer than the Agency. Just that is it possible for some injuries to be repaired with the tools that the GP, or even a hospitol would have avalible, rather than going back to Rome.
And besides, they could just kill the doc after anyway. Jean seems to have no issues with killing blokes that could give the Agency away, Roballo is proof of that, I mean, he was Jean's frined for Christ's sake, and... BANG! (Maybe not that dramatic, but you get the point)

by **Kiskaloo** Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 6:45

Within my universe, the SWA does have field medics. When Kara was shot in the gut on a mission, the field medic on hand (Licia Cerutti) was able to keep her stable until she could be airlifted back to Rome.

by Three Dog Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 6:58

Kiskaloo wrote:Within my universe, the SWA does have field medics. When Kara was shot in the gut on a mission, the field medic on hand (Licia Cerutti) was able to keep her stable until she could be airlifted back to Rome.

That would most definately solve the problem. I kinda portray the cyborgs in my Fics as Machine god like death machines. When I had the cyborgs in Iraq, Victoria got shot in the chest by an AP round (The stock of her rifle and Kevlar vest slowed it enough to be non-leathal) shot a few times with an MG, had a lenthy piece of tank stuck in her leg after being to close to a Javelin strike, a mild concusion from same Javelin strike, got bandaged up, shot some more with an assault rifle, and then she blacked out on the way back to base from blood loss. She only awoke three days later in a hospitol bed at the Agency, with some 'heavy duty' limbs. And she's only a Second Gen, think of the carnage the First's can go through. I think I may be over stating thier abilities Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 61015

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by Alfisti Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 8:20

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:I was thinking more on the situation where there's an an all out war or something, maybe they're somehwere like the middle east, and having them flown all the way back to Italy would be a bit of a waste of resources, however, the injury still lowers thier combat effectiveness. Or perhaps in an army base that already knows that they are cyborgs (Like the Foereign Legion in one of my Fics), so that they can get fixed there. Saves time, money, and possibly lives.

Again, though it's not something I'd use in my own writings (I tend to take the view that there's no such thing as a "friend" in the international community, meerly countries you happen to be nice to as their adgenda currently coincides with yours), that's certainly a more plausible. I that situation though, I'd be inclined to go with Kisk's idea that the SWA would dispatch field medics with its personnel and cyborg-assets.

by Three Dog Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 8:44

Alfisti wrote:...I tend to take the view that there's no such thing as a "friend" in the international community, meerly countries you happen to be nice to as their adgenda currently coincides with yours...

You wouldn't happen to read Schlock Mercenary would you? Seriously, that's almost exactly like the maxim "The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy, nothing more".

But how long would these medics take to arrive if they can arrive, is what my problem is with that. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, 'cause it's actually a pretty good one. I'm also not saying that the problem can be permanantly fixed without the Agency's equipment. What I'm getting at is temporary repairs, not replacing damaged organs. Just enough to tide the cyborg over till medics can arrive.

by **Nachtsider** Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 9:01

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:
I was thinking more on the situation where there's an an all out war or something, maybe they're somehwere like the middle east, and having them flown all the way back to Italy would be a bit of a waste of resources, however, the injury still lowers thier combat effectiveness. Or perhaps in an army base that already knows that they are cyborgs (Like the Foereign Legion in one of my Fics), so that they can get fixed there. Saves time, money, and possibly lives.

I shipped the girls out to Iraq in one of my stories. My narrative implies that certain elements of the Coalition forces were aware of their presence, and possessed the facilities to provide them with aid and support. Take note, however, that the events of my stories occur in a world where the SWA is but one of several nations who operate cyborgs, with most of these nations working in concert.

by Alfisti Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 9:27

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:You wouldn't happen to read Schlock Mercenary would you? Seriously, that's almost exactly like the maxim "The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy, nothing more".

'Fraid not, I just happen to have a particularly jaded and cynical view of the world at large.

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:But how long would these medics take to arrive if they can arrive, is what my problem is with that. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, 'cause it's actually a pretty good one. I'm also not saying that the problem can be permanantly fixed without the Agency's equipment. What I'm getting at is temporary repairs, not replacing damaged organs. Just enough to tide the cyborg over till medics can arrive.

I dunno, I guess a regular doctor/medic could do a blood transfusion (keeping in mind previous conversation), patch a bullet wound in muscle, maybe fix a dislocated limb, that sort of thing. Hell, I've had Jethro superglue Monty closed before now. Administering drugs of any form may be a bit more dubious... if only because the girls are already pumped up on God knows what; adding something else without prior knowledge may not be such a good plan, particularly as concentrated doses of the conditioning compound seem to be used in the place of morphine (which would suggest the latter either doesn't react well to the conditioning drug or is rendered ineffective).

by **ElfenMagix** Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 21:40

I concur with Nacht. In my universe all first world nations have cybernetic technologies, mostly use in secret. But some nations want to steal such technologies from other nations to see where they are in the technologies. Its a given though that the first world nations have cybernetic systems, it is not that they are the same or even compatible. Even in Japan, different companies have different designs in cybernetics.

by Three Dog Mon 23 Apr 2012 - 1:33

Natchsider wrote:I shipped the girls out to Iraq in one of my stories. My narrative
implies that certain elements of the Coalition forces were aware of
their presence, and possessed the facilities to provide them with aid
and support. Take note, however, that the events of my stories occur in a
world where the SWA is but one of several nations who operate cyborgs,
with most of these nations working in concert.

ElfenMagix wrote:I concur with Nacht. In my universe all first world nations have
cybernetic technologies, mostly use in secret. But some nations want to
steal such technologies from other nations to see where they are in the
technologies. Its a given though that the first world nations have
cybernetic systems, it is not that they are the same or even compatible.
Even in Japan, different companies have different designs in
cybernetics.

I've just left cyborgs to Italy, but they do or rather, will (as I am yet to write it) work with various other nations who have thier own little dirty secrets; Robots, Arteficial intelegences, Gauss/Rail weapons, Nano technology, Mechs, etc. And everyone sort of knows about the cyborgs anyway, same way as teh Padania do, probably some intern on Facebook or Twitter.

Back to the other subject:

Alfitsi wrote:I dunno, I guess a regular doctor/medic could do a blood transfusion
(keeping in mind previous conversation), patch a bullet wound in muscle,
maybe fix a dislocated limb, that sort of thing. Hell, I've had Jethro
superglue Monty closed before now. Administering drugs of any form may
be a bit more dubious... if only because the girls are already pumped up
on God knows what; adding something else without prior knowledge may
not be such a good plan, particularly as concentrated doses of the
conditioning compound seem to be used in the place of morphine (which
would suggest the latter either doesn't react well to the conditioning
drug or is rendered ineffective).

Super glue? I take it there wasn't any duct tape handy, that shit fixes everything.

by Alfisti Mon 23 Apr 2012 - 1:47

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:Super glue? I take it there wasn't any duct tape handy, that shit fixes everything.

Well they were on a Russian transport plane at the time, so superglue and duct tape are part of the standard maintinence kit... however duct would have been to visible and I think Monty may have objected. Also, one of the early roles of superglue/CA glue was as a surgical glue used to tak things in place or hold a wound shut untill it could be attended to properly. Why do you think it's so damn good at sticking human body parts to things? Using industrial-grade glue probably isn't a fantastic solution but if the situation requires... hell, I've superglued myself up once or twice. Stings like crazy mind.

by Three Dog Mon 23 Apr 2012 - 2:04

Alfisti wrote:
Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:Super glue? I take it there wasn't any duct tape handy, that shit fixes everything.
Well they were on a Russian transport plane at the time, so superglue and duct tape are part of the standard maintinence kit... however duct would have been to visible and I think Monty may have objected. Also, one of the early roles of superglue/CA glue was as a surgical glue used to tak things in place or hold a wound shut untill it could be attended to properly. Why do you think it's so damn good at sticking human body parts to things? Using industrial-grade glue probably isn't a fantastic solution but if the situation requires... hell, I've superglued myself up once or twice. Stings like crazy mind.

looks like I've learnt my new thing for today. Coolio. Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 2752

by tremec6speed Mon 23 Apr 2012 - 18:37

Field medics sound cool. The SWA helps the general public with their prosthetics which I magine are an inferior version of what the girls use. I guess those are only repair/replace, but when Jean smacked Rico, I wonder if the blood stopped on it's own like in a healing process or did she have to get repaired even after what is relativey minor damage?

by Guest Mon 23 Apr 2012 - 18:47

There has to be some degree of healing taking place for minor injuries or the girls would be accidents waiting to happen losing the majority of their effectiveness

by **Nachtsider** Mon 23 Apr 2012 - 19:34

I'm thinking that kind of injury means absolutely nothing. To use a similar example - the Terminator bled when hit, but that didn't count as any sort of real damage.

by **ElfenMagix** Mon 23 Apr 2012 - 20:16

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:
Natchsider wrote:I shipped the girls out to Iraq in one of my stories. My narrative
implies that certain elements of the Coalition forces were aware of
their presence, and possessed the facilities to provide them with aid
and support. Take note, however, that the events of my stories occur in a
world where the SWA is but one of several nations who operate cyborgs,
with most of these nations working in concert.
ElfenMagix wrote:I concur with Nacht. In my universe all first world nations have
cybernetic technologies, mostly use in secret. But some nations want to
steal such technologies from other nations to see where they are in the
technologies. Its a given though that the first world nations have
cybernetic systems, it is not that they are the same or even compatible.
Even in Japan, different companies have different designs in
cybernetics.
I've just left cyborgs to Italy, but they do or rather, will (as I am yet to write it) work with various other nations who have thier own little dirty secrets; Robots, Arteficial intelegences, Gauss/Rail weapons, Nano technology, Mechs, etc. And everyone sort of knows about the cyborgs anyway, same way as teh Padania do, probably some intern on Facebook or Twitter.

International travel is not a problem from the looks of it. Triela went everywhere with Hillshire, Henrietta with Jose and Rico with Jean. In fanfiction, with OCs coming from all over the world, they go all over the world. My point is that every nation has their own version of cybernetic technology and are willing to steal a another nation's cyborg to disect her and see where that other nation's technology lies. Almost exactly like the Ernesto/Pia story.

As for Padania know, they dont know. Only Christiano and his minions know because they observed what was in the feild and took action against them. If Christaino told Dante that the government was using bullet proof child super soldiers to go after them, Dante's response would be, "Bullet proof? Hmmmm... Let see them stand up to anti-aircraft fire!" (insert evil cackle here)

by Guest Mon 23 Apr 2012 - 21:58

ElfenMagix wrote:As for Padania know, they dont know. Only Christiano and his minions know because they observed what was in the feild and took action against them. If Christaino told Dante that the government was using bullet proof child super soldiers to go after them, Dante's response would be, "Bullet proof? Hmmmm... Let see them stand up to anti-aircraft fire!" (insert evil cackle here)

Isn't that basicly what Dante did in Venice with the 20mm auto cannon he used on beatrice

by **ElfenMagix** Mon 23 Apr 2012 - 23:24

crazyidiot78 wrote:
ElfenMagix wrote:As for Padania know, they dont know. Only Christiano and his minions know because they observed what was in the feild and took action against them. If Christaino told Dante that the government was using bullet proof child super soldiers to go after them, Dante's response would be, "Bullet proof? Hmmmm... Let see them stand up to anti-aircraft fire!" (insert evil cackle here)

Isn't that basicly what Dante did in Venice with the 20mm auto cannon he used on beatrice

See - it worked!

by Three Dog Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 3:26

ElfenMagix wrote:
crazyidiot78 wrote:
ElfenMagix wrote:As for Padania know, they dont know. Only Christiano and his minions know because they observed what was in the feild and took action against them. If Christaino told Dante that the government was using bullet proof child super soldiers to go after them, Dante's response would be, "Bullet proof? Hmmmm... Let see them stand up to anti-aircraft fire!" (insert evil cackle here)

Isn't that basicly what Dante did in Venice with the 20mm auto cannon he used on beatrice
See - it worked!

Beatrice wasn't that bullet proof then, not even able to stop a measly 20mm explosive round designed primarily to shoot tanks and choppers with naught but her chest muscles Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 322443

Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 322443

. I am much disapointed in her. If it had been a 40mm Depleted Urainium round (or several hundred considering they are fired out of gattling guns), I would have understood. But to beatrice's credit, she did carry a missile all by herself.
Sarcasm aside, are regular humans too soft a target for an explosive round to, you know, explode on?

Natchsider wrote:I'm thinking that kind of injury means absolutely nothing. To use a
similar example - the Terminator bled when hit, but that didn't count as
any sort of real damage.

I agree.

ElfenMagix wrote:International travel is not a problem from the looks
of it. Triela went everywhere with Hillshire, Henrietta with Jose and
Rico with Jean. In fanfiction, with OCs coming from all over the world,
they go all over the world. My point is that every nation has their own
version of cybernetic technology and are willing to steal a another
nation's cyborg to disect her and see where that other nation's
technology lies. Almost exactly like the Ernesto/Pia story.

Facinating. Definately gives me some food for thought Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 5181

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by **Nachtsider** Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 5:27

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:Sarcasm aside, are regular humans too soft a target for an explosive round to, you know, explode on?

Nope. 20mm rounds will turn a person into paint.

by Alfisti Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 6:11

ElfenMagix wrote:International travel is not a problem from the looks of it. Triela went everywhere with Hillshire, Henrietta with Jose and Rico with Jean. In fanfiction, with OCs coming from all over the world, they go all over the world. My point is that every nation has their own version of cybernetic technology and are willing to steal a another nation's cyborg to disect her and see where that other nation's technology lies. Almost exactly like the Ernesto/Pia story.

I don't see any issue with international travel either... and lets be honest: I'd be being a little hypocritical if I did Razz

... just so long as the logistical issues are taken care of as well, whether that be by sending a large team with support, short duration deployments (go, get the job done and get out, before any cyborg tics become an issue), or through a means like I have with J+M... whatever works.

As to what nations get which toys, in my own head (and thereby in my own fanfiction universe) I tend to view Italy as being particularly advanced down the cyborg/bio-engineering route; an oddity in an otherwise relatively normal world. Sure, the States has their nano-tech, etc. but the Italians are the only ones who have managed to get all the bits working in one system... and I'm sure there's plenty willing to have a stab at stealing said system. That's how I tend to play it anyway.

by Three Dog Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 10:34

Alfisti wrote:
ElfenMagix wrote:International travel is not a problem from the looks of it. Triela went everywhere with Hillshire, Henrietta with Jose and Rico with Jean. In fanfiction, with OCs coming from all over the world, they go all over the world. My point is that every nation has their own version of cybernetic technology and are willing to steal a another nation's cyborg to disect her and see where that other nation's technology lies. Almost exactly like the Ernesto/Pia story.
I don't see any issue with international travel either... and lets be honest: I'd be being a little hypocritical if I did ... just so long as the logistical issues are taken care of as well, whether that be by sending a large team with support, short duration deployments (go, get the job done and get out, before any cyborg tics become an issue), or through a means like I have with J+M... whatever works.

As to what nations get which toys, in my own head (and thereby in my own fanfiction universe) I tend to view Italy as being particularly advanced down the cyborg/bio-engineering route; an oddity in an otherwise relatively normal world. Sure, the States has their nano-tech, etc. but the Italians are the only ones who have managed to get all the bits working in one system... and I'm sure there's plenty willing to have a stab at stealing said system. That's how I tend to play it anyway.

I don't doubt that people want to stell things, even within my own 'verse. Hell, I've got a whole mercenary army based around that fact that they can steel every ones dirty little secrets, they got the lot, but do not sell any of it so as to maintain a monopoly on the global mercenary market. They also have the hate of every 'advanced' nation out there, at least for a while. I actually have the SWA doing some of the thieving, since each model (merc 'borg/SWA 'borg/ whoever else has stolen the tech/ 'borg) has it's advantages and disadvanteges
And I'd given the Americans Rail/Gauss tech instead of nano. I haven't decided who gets nano yet, maybe the Germans?
And you guys got me on the whole medic thing, I can't find anymore holes. I surrender.
For now Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 999463

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by Schaschanist Wed 25 Apr 2012 - 4:46

Guys, becauseof some actual thoughts i want to turn this here to slightly different direction.

In the manga I've seen Triela enjoying a glass of wine. Now my question is, how do our cyborgs react on alcohol?

In my vision I see Triela convincing Emilie on a trip to taste a glass of red wine and Emi on the next morning has headache after she was lightly drunken the evening before because of that new experience (she never before tasted any littlest drop alcohol).

by Alfisti Wed 25 Apr 2012 - 5:18

schaschanist wrote:Guys, becauseof some actual thoughts i want to turn this here to slightly different direction.

In the manga I've seen Triela enjoying a glass of wine. Now my question is, how do our cyborgs react on alcohol?

In my vision I see Triela convincing Emilie on a trip to taste a glass of red wine and Emi on the next morning has headache after she was lightly drunken the evening before because of that new experience (she never before tasted any littlest drop alcohol).

Well, in my own fiction I tend to take the view that they process alcohol in approximately the same manner as a regular human, with the associated varying tolerances for the stuff. Monty's certainly not adverse to a drink or two, and since she drinks resonably regularly presumably her tollerance is higher than a cyborg who doesn't.

I don't have any good medical backing for this, it's just how I like to play my stories. Razz

That said: I guess it would probably depend on how the liver was treated during the girls' conversion to cyborgs. If they still have a biological liver I assume the processing of alcohol is similar to that of a human (key word here: assume. I've not done much reading into how the body processes alcohol... bar the usual practical research Razz

). If its an artificial liver then it might be different, and if the liver were artificial then it would make sense to have it process toxins (including alcohol) as quickly as possible, faster than a normal human liver if possible.

Personally I tend to keep the girls' cyborg advantages to the basics: strength, motorskills/reactions/speed, bullet resistence, vision, hearing... maybe smell (not so much Monty), so the liver operates as per human-normal. However that's just because I like to make their lives more difficult in the interests of the story. Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 61015

Others will probably have different views and play it differently.

by Guest Wed 25 Apr 2012 - 7:08

I took the artificial route in regards to their liver and the girls process alcohol, drugs, and other substances very fast. So they can still get drunk they just need to have a lot of alcohol in a short period of time.

by **Nachtsider** Wed 25 Apr 2012 - 7:39

I like to think they can drink any alcoholic under the table in no time flat.

by Awinnell Wed 25 Apr 2012 - 8:20

Alchohol and whatever godforsaken drugs they are being given ?

Baaadd idea !

by Professor Voodoo Wed 25 Apr 2012 - 9:43

Awinnell wrote:Alchohol and whatever godforsaken drugs they are being given ?

Baaadd idea !

On two occasions we see Triela drinking wine;
Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 Wine110

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being that Hillshire is not exactly a reckless guy I'm sure he's consulted the cyborg engineers before allowing her to have it.

Personally, I don't subscribe to the notion that the cyborgs have any greater tolerance to intoxicants than a normal 10-17 year old.

by **Kiskaloo** Wed 25 Apr 2012 - 9:52

Even an artificial liver likely has it's limits and I expect the Medical Branch did not have alcohol processing in mind as the primary function.

by Guest Wed 25 Apr 2012 - 10:12

i actually based the idea of faster alcohol metabolism on the thought that the doctors would want certain substances processed faster than normal and those substances are also broken down in the same way that alcohol is. So it was more of an after thought than part of the design process.

by Professor Voodoo Wed 25 Apr 2012 - 10:27

crazyidiot78 wrote:i actually based the idea of faster alcohol metabolism on the thought that the doctors would want certain substances processed faster than normal and those substances are also broken down in the same way that alcohol is. So it was more of an after thought than part of the design process.

As a way of quickly neutralizing an introduced poison I presume?

by **Nachtsider** Wed 25 Apr 2012 - 13:49

Professor Voodoo wrote:As a way of quickly neutralizing an introduced poison I presume?

Exactly.

The doctors belatedly discover the unconsidered alcohol-related effects when Triela drinks several SWA employees under the table on a dare, but are unable to do anything to rectify this without undoing their intended end-results with regards to poisoning negation.

by **ElfenMagix** Wed 25 Apr 2012 - 20:17

In my universe cyborgs still have their liver since its an organ that is yet to be made artificial yet. So they process alcohol like any other person.

But in my universe, we have RU-22, the government version of RU-21 pills, which actually absorbs alcohol and helps the body recover from its poisons. Unlike the public version which only eases a hangover.

by Three Dog Thu 26 Apr 2012 - 5:17

I'd never really thought about the how of how the cyborgs get
drunk. I do have one of my OCs, Mercedes as an alcoholic, and she
basically drinks that often that she almost has a natural imunity to
whiskey. S'pose she would probably have an arteficial liver (or a
regular one that's on the verge of death). With my other OC, Victoria,
it's a given that her liver would be arteficial since everything from
her chest below had to be reconstructed, though she still gets drunk
normally.
Basically what I'm trying to say and that I only just
figured out now, is that they have arteficial livers that process
alcohol like a reular liver. Don't know if it will be any help though.
P.S. Red wine tastes like puke. Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 692191

Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 692191

by **Nachtsider** Thu 26 Apr 2012 - 6:33

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:P.S. Red wine tastes like puke.

Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 Colbert7fi

by Alfisti Thu 26 Apr 2012 - 7:01

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:P.S. Red wine tastes like puke.

The trick is not to drink the stuff which comes in a goon bag. Wink

by **Kiskaloo** Thu 26 Apr 2012 - 9:10

Alfisti wrote:
Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:P.S. Red wine tastes like puke.

The trick is not to drink the stuff which comes in a goon bag.

Amy: "But in a box? Brilliant!"

by Awinnell Thu 26 Apr 2012 - 12:45

Kiskaloo wrote:
Alfisti wrote:
Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:P.S. Red wine tastes like puke.

The trick is not to drink the stuff which comes in a goon bag.

Amy: "But in a box? Brilliant!"

sorry to say it's an age thing,generally you learn to drink for the taste rather than the side effects as you get older !

by Guest Thu 26 Apr 2012 - 19:54

Eh im older and i still dont like the stuff give me a screw driver or cuba llibre any day

by **ElfenMagix** Thu 26 Apr 2012 - 21:19

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:P.S. Red wine tastes like puke.

You should try the bitter dregs at the bottom of the bottle.

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:I'd never really thought about the how of how the cyborgs get
drunk. I do have one of my OCs, Mercedes as an alcoholic, and she
basically drinks that often that she almost has a natural imunity to
whiskey. S'pose she would probably have an arteficial liver (or a
regular one that's on the verge of death).

Fernando is the son of 2 alcoholic parents, so his alcohol resistance is quite high. His drinking has been known to scare most bartenders, especially when he does his 8 Double-Quad Scotches, which is about 4 one liter bottles...

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:... With my other OC, Victoria,
it's a given that her liver would be arteficial since everything from
her chest below had to be reconstructed, though she still gets drunk
normally.
Basically what I'm trying to say and that I only just
figured out now, is that they have arteficial livers that process
alcohol like a reular liver. Don't know if it will be any help though.

I'll say before and I'll save it again. The liver is too complex to make artificial.

by Three Dog Fri 27 Apr 2012 - 6:09

I seem to have opnened quite the can of worms here.

ElfenMagix wrote:
Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:... With my other OC, Victoria,
it's a given that her liver would be arteficial since everything from
her chest below had to be reconstructed, though she still gets drunk
normally.
Basically what I'm trying to say and that I only just
figured out now, is that they have arteficial livers that process
alcohol like a reular liver. Don't know if it will be any help though.
I'll say before and I'll save it again. The liver is too complex to make artificial.

I know, I'm a bad person, but I had already written it that way before it was pointed out and have written three stories with her that way (All but one finnished (but not edited) before joining the forum). I'll be damned if I'm gonna sumon the energy and get off my lazy ass to go change it now Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 617495

Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 617495

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Awinnell wrote:
Kiskaloo wrote:
Alfisti wrote:
Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:P.S. Red wine tastes like puke.

The trick is not to drink the stuff which comes in a goon bag.

Amy: "But in a box? Brilliant!"

sorry
to say it's an age thing,generally you learn to drink for the taste
rather than the side effects as you get older !

Isn't that becuase as people get older, thier taste buds change so that bitter tastes are more... appetising (for lack of a better word). That's how old poeple can stand blue vein cheese. You may want to verify this with a reputable source; I am known to be wrong at times.

by Alfisti Fri 27 Apr 2012 - 8:29

ElfenMagix wrote:I'll say before and I'll save it again. The liver is too complex to make artificial.

But also, I believe (and I could be wrong... it's happened before Razz

) fortunatley one of the easier organs to transplant.

by Guest Fri 27 Apr 2012 - 8:31

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:Isn't that becuase as people get older, thier taste buds change so that bitter tastes are more... appetising (for lack of a better word). That's how old poeple can stand blue vein cheese. You may want to verify this with a reputable source; I am known to be wrong at times.

No you are correct we do lose the ability to taste and smell some what as we age. However there are also psycological and rational factors involved as well when we stop drinking like a bunch of frat boys.

by **Nachtsider** Fri 27 Apr 2012 - 8:51

Fuck rationality. You only live once. Razz

by **boomer_gonz** Fri 27 Apr 2012 - 10:23

Since I am (very) late to this party. I swill state that many of these questions arose with me and with others I asked around again and in a bout of creative( or careless from another point of view) I went with discerning the technologies in the SWA as being either of techno-organic origin or the more realistic bio-synthetic models. It even sparked a fic in me that I have yet to finish. sweat

With further information listed in the OC Wiki it basically boils down to...

Techno-organic= A substance or process meant to seamlessly repair and/or replace natural biologic function.

Bio-synthetic= A substance or process meant to emulate a biologic function requiring repair and/or replacement.

Another primary difference between the two being that the techno-organic process is a one-time process assimilating the body's own natural repair and maintenance mechanisms and possibly improving them as well. Bio-synthetic on the other hand would be something similar too, but not quite organic meaning that the organ(s) would need repair, maintenance, and eventual periodic replacement.

by tremec6speed Fri 27 Apr 2012 - 16:49

To toss my two cents into this cool conversation, I imagine that budgets dictate a lot therefore if it's more feasible to develop a pill for alcohol control than to create a complex organ, then the Agency will do what is more economically expedient. (of course to do that means the SWA expects the girls to drink at some point on their missions, I guess?) Hmm...

by Guest Fri 27 Apr 2012 - 20:35

boomer_gonz wrote:Since I am (very) late to this party. I swill state that many of these questions arose with me and with others I asked around again and in a bout of creative( or careless from another point of view) I went with discerning the technologies in the SWA as being either of techno-organic origin or the more realistic bio-synthetic models. It even sparked a fic in me that I have yet to finish.

With further information listed in the OC Wiki it basically boils down to...

Techno-organic= A substance or process meant to seamlessly repair and/or replace natural biologic function.

Bio-synthetic= A substance or process meant to emulate a biologic function requiring repair and/or replacement.

Another primary difference between the two being that the techno-organic process is a one-time process assimilating the body's own natural repair and maintenance mechanisms and possibly improving them as well. Bio-synthetic on the other hand would be something similar too, but not quite organic meaning that the organ(s) would need repair, maintenance, and eventual periodic replacement.

i am excited to see what you have on that angle boomer cant wait

by **ElfenMagix** Fri 27 Apr 2012 - 21:03

Alfisti wrote:
ElfenMagix wrote:I'll say before and I'll save it again. The liver is too complex to make artificial.
But also, I believe (and I could be wrong... it's happened before ) fortunatley one of the easier organs to transplant.

You are correct on that, Alfisti.

by Guest Fri 27 Apr 2012 - 21:06

It also helps that the liver regenerates it self so a full sized transplant is not needed. This also allows live donors even though we only have 1

by **ElfenMagix** Fri 27 Apr 2012 - 21:17

crazyidiot78 wrote:It also helps that the liver regenerates it self so a full sized transplant is not needed. This also allows live donors even though we only have 1

Correct. It takes a couple of months for a liver to regrow to its original size. But during this time, one cant take alcohol. A friend of mine had cancer on one of his liver lobes, so it was cut out, and the rest grew back without incident. But he was a heavy drinker and when the liver 80% regrown, he took one too many drinks. He died the way he wanted: sitting down watching TV with a beer in his hand (and 9 empties on the floor, after having returned from bar hopping and who knows how many drinks he had then...). Joe, you're being missed by a lot of friends.

by Three Dog Sat 28 Apr 2012 - 3:08

Nachtsider wrote:Fuck rationality. You only live once.

I agree.
In the words of some one who's name I cannot remember: "You spend your whole life eating right and staying fit so that you can die healthy."
Imma go do some things my parents warned me never to do, see you's in a bit Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 684325

Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 684325

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by **ElfenMagix** Sat 28 Apr 2012 - 19:37

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:
Nachtsider wrote:Fuck rationality. You only live once.
I agree.
In the words of some one who's name I cannot remember: "You spend your whole life eating right and staying fit so that you can die healthy."
Imma go do some things my parents warned me never to do, see you's in a bit .

I remember some schlock diet doctor professing about eating in a certain way. His more famous quote, "You are what you eat. But who wants to grow up a wiener? Or a Twinkie?" He died about 2 years later in his late 30s. In seeing this, I'll stay with my high cholesterol, high caffeine, moderate alcohol, wiener and Twinkie diet. I'm seem to be doing fine with it.

by Thescarredman Wed 2 May 2012 - 21:20

Well, Chapter 95 gives us something new to think about. A cyborg with blood cancer? That can be treated by replacing her limbs? Errrrr...

by **ElfenMagix** Wed 2 May 2012 - 21:24

Thescarredman wrote:Well, Chapter 95 gives us something new to think about. A cyborg with blood cancer? That can be treated by replacing her limbs? Errrrr...

No. Unless the problems lies in that inside her limbs still contain her original bones. It is in the long bones of the body (and in the Pelvis) that contains the bone marrow and the source of her Leukemia.

But where are several solutions of cures for that cancer. Which one they take is on them.

by Guest Wed 2 May 2012 - 23:20

Well that depends on if it metastisizes and i think they mentioned in the chapter that she is more prone to getting cancer so that makes things more difficult

by Schaschanist Thu 3 May 2012 - 1:30

Chapter 95 is a good example how much normal human the 2nd gens really are.
I think with the 1st gens there aren't such issues since they are alot more artificial.

by Three Dog Thu 3 May 2012 - 6:13

FUCK! I still haven't read Ch95 guys Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 361650

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Nah, it's all good. I need to get off my arse and read it now, thanks for the push Cyborgs and (bacterical/viral) Illness? - Page 2 2752

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