If Jose and Hilshire had an accident/serious wounded!!!!

by **emperor** Thu 4 Oct 2007 - 22:44

And they're in ICU room both.

Can SWA let Henrietta & Triela visit their handlers?

How much this bad news effect to these two girls performance?:cherry:

by Danjo3 Fri 5 Oct 2007 - 1:53

I don’t see why not. I’m sure both girls would be a little on the hysterical side, but hospital personnel would just assume they were family. I think the biggest problem would be getting them to leave. I’m sure they would both refuse to do it.

Performance wise, I think they would be useless. More then likely, the Agency would take them out of the line up until their handlers recovered.

by Wileama Fri 5 Oct 2007 - 9:35

I'm with Danjo all the way on this one. There is nothing stopping the girls from visiting, save the handler himself. Now I'm sure Jose, and Hilshire would allow the visists. However I can think of at least one handler how wouldn't want to be bothered by his cyborg.

Also on performance, the girls don't have a handler. So there is no one to handle them in the field. Unless they get crazy, and try to give the temporary job to Ferro. They would have to be desperate beyond all measures to try that though.

A side note. Who ever put said handler in the ICU should put as much distance between themselves, and the handlers girl as quickly as possible.

by **ElfenMagix** Fri 5 Oct 2007 - 10:56

I agree as well.
But what if its like a Princess Diana Car Crash of some type; where the handlers are in the front seat and the cyborgs in the back?

That would cause some serious issues in the emergency ward as they x-ray the girls and find out what they are! Furthermore, the police investigating the accident will find the stash of weapons... Then it gets ugly, and somebody will go to the news media eventually. I dont think the SWA would be fast enough to respond to this type of situation and must do some sort of massive clean up operation- complete with MiB memory erasers!

Once all this is said and done, Dr. Bianchi will want the injured handlers in their care and a tranfer put in order once the handlers are stabilized for transport. Once back in the compound, the girls can be with their injured handlers 24/7.

Out of the two- Henrietta would be the most devistated. Triela would be hurt too but not as much has Henrietta would be.

by LoC978 Fri 5 Oct 2007 - 12:55

pretty well agreed... but I don't think Triela would be useless per se. If Hillshire told her to from his hospital bed, she'd work under Jean or Marco. If Hillshire was in a coma or something, though...

ElfenMagix wrote:But what if its like a Princess Diana Car Crash of some type; where the handlers are in the front seat and the cyborgs in the back?

If the handlers filed the correct paperwork, and the agency knew where they were.. they'd most likely have people at the scene shortly after the paramedics, handling all the political issues and making sure their people got back to the compound hospital as soon as they were stabilized.
Also, they have the backing of the Prime Minister's office, so even if they found out a little late, all the stories would be labelled 'tabloid material', and the witnesses would just be 'paranoid nutjobs'

by Danjo3 Sat 6 Oct 2007 - 1:22

LoC978 wrote:pretty well agreed... but I don't think Triela would be useless per se. If Hillshire told her to from his hospital bed, she'd work under Jean or Marco. If Hillshire was in a coma or something, though...

The girls have to be totally focused in order to carry out missions. If Hillshire were in the hospital, Triela would be far too upset to properly concentrate. I don’t think the Agency would risk using her for fear she would fuck-up.

by Wileama Sat 6 Oct 2007 - 8:49

LoC978 wrote:pretty well agreed... but I don't think Triela would be useless per se. If Hillshire told her to from his hospital bed, she'd work under Jean or Marco. If Hillshire was in a coma or something, though...
ElfenMagix wrote:But what if its like a Princess Diana Car Crash of some type; where the handlers are in the front seat and the cyborgs in the back?
If the handlers filed the correct paperwork, and the agency knew where they were.. they'd most likely have people at the scene shortly after the paramedics, handling all the political issues and making sure their people got back to the compound hospital as soon as they were stabilized.
Also, they have the backing of the Prime Minister's office, so even if they found out a little late, all the stories would be labelled 'tabloid material', and the witnesses would just be 'paranoid nutjobs'

Okay, problems. First, how does the agency learn of the accident? Do the paramedics alert them, or do they have a tail of some sort? How do the paramedics know to tell the agency, why is the agency wasting the money to tail every handler.

Second, just labeling the it tabloid material is going to be hard. You'll have several doctors, many more nurses, and things like x-rays. Not to mention a couple cops scratching their head about the automatic weapon in the girls violin case. The kind of people, combined with the number, makes it hard to just call them paranoid. You would need to have a massive, well created misinformation campaign, and more luck then... well... someone very lucky. The Prime Minister may just claim no knowledge of the SWA, and use the intelligence community as his scape goat.

Your best chance is for the girls to stay conscious, or wake up quickly. Have them trained to say, 'I'm not hurt badly.' If you lucky the condition, and severity of the handler will make them assume that she's telling the truth. They'll check her for a concussion, assume she has some scraps/bruies, and focus on the handler. Giving her just enough time to call the SWA. SWA calls the hospital, and police chief. Girl is pulled of to the side, before to many have looked at her careful, and quietly transfered to SWA care. Police chief pulls his cops off to the side. Evidence disappears, and said officers either make a career drug bust, or are found shot dead in a cop car full of drugs.

Truth be told, girls get in a accident like that, especially a girl like Elsa, or Henrietta, what I just described is a pipe dream. This is one of those things, that you can plan for, but in the end there isn't much you can do. There is going to be a lot of information 'flowing out' of the SWA after something like this. Clues, evidence, witnesses, strange happenings, what ever. It's information that points to the truth about the SWA, and it wont be a trivial amount. On a really good day it'll leave most people wondering what happened, and a few very smart people will figure it out. On most other days it's going to be enough for the general public to figure it out. What ever the case, it's going to be next to impossible to reverse, or counter this flow of information. Just having people wondering what's going on at the SWA could be enough to seriously damage the agency.

As for the readiness of the girls. I'm with Danjo, any girl would be too distracted to preform well.

by LoC978 Sat 6 Oct 2007 - 11:20

Okay, problems. First, how does the agency learn of the accident? Do the paramedics alert them, or do they have a tail of some sort? How do the paramedics know to tell the agency, why is the agency wasting the money to tail every handler.

impanted chips that track GPS co-ordinates. I assume each of the girls has one, just in case she up and decides to go for a little unsupervised stroll.

On most other days it's going to be enough for the general public to figure it out.

In America, your theories on this matter are solid, but...
As in America, where does the general public of Italy get most of its information? the news. who controls the news in Italy? the Prime Minister. There will be a few, smarter people who can piece this one together, but they're just more paranoid nutjobs, right?

by Wileama Sat 6 Oct 2007 - 14:45

LoC978 wrote:impanted chips that track GPS co-ordinates. I assume each of the girls has one, just in case she up and decides to go for a little unsupervised stroll.

Okay I'll accept that, which does hurt just a little. However that doesn't actually solve your problem. Location != accident indicator.

LoC978 wrote:In America, your theories on this matter are solid, but...
As in America, where does the general public of Italy get most of its information? the news. who controls the news in Italy? the Prime Minister. There will be a few, smarter people who can piece this one together, but they're just more paranoid nutjobs, right?

There are limits to the controls such a man could impose. This is not a dictatorship. 3 doctors, 5 nurse see some really amazing artifical organs/bones. Within the hour I guaranty most of the hospital staff will be talking about the girl in the ICU. Then a cop tells one of the nurse, oh yeah we just found a SMG in her violion case. Now everyone in the hospital is talking about it. It becomes a topic of conversation with friends, and family. Several reports here of this, or get calls.

One, will write an article about. Questions will be asked...

Side note: has a reporter ever asked for a tour of the SWA for some positive happy fluff article?

by **ElfenMagix** Sat 6 Oct 2007 - 15:12

Wileama wrote:Side note: has a reporter ever asked for a tour of the SWA for some positive happy fluff article?

From what I gather in both the Anime and Manga featuring Henrietta and Angie's origins, The doctors in charge of their care were glad that the SWA stepped for their medical and social welfare. So there has to be some kind of press going on that the SWA must have some kind of program to help desperately sick, injured and/or orphaned children.

I would not be surprized if they show off a cyborg or two and say in some commercial-

'A year ago, Triela was found dying in a wreckage of this plane crash. Her family died with the rest of the passengers and crew. But thanks to the SWA, Treila has a new life, a new family and a new home. All her medical treatments paid for so she can be the beautiful girl she is today...

But the SWA needs your support. And generious amount will be greatly appreicated!

This is SWA Director Lorenzo, urging for your support.'

by LoC978 Sat 6 Oct 2007 - 15:36

Wileama wrote:
Okay I'll accept that, which does hurt just a little. However that doesn't actually solve your problem. Location != accident indicator.

Very true. in fact, looking back at the Elsa incident, I think I'll concede most of my points on this matter. at that point at least, they didn't have a way to know if a fratello was in trouble on their time off. They may have implemented something since though. (I'd recommend an audio bug of some kind)

Wileama wrote:
There are limits to the controls such a man could impose. This is not a dictatorship. 3 doctors, 5 nurse see some really amazing artifical organs/bones. Within the hour I guaranty most of the hospital staff will be talking about the girl in the ICU. Then a cop tells one of the nurse, oh yeah we just found a SMG in her violion case. Now everyone in the hospital is talking about it. It becomes a topic of conversation with friends, and family. Several reports here of this, or get calls.
One, will write an article about. Questions will be asked...

I don't think the article would be written in a major publication. publishing something that unbelievable would make almost any magazine/newspaper look like a tabloid. also, in a population as dense as any Italian city, a thousand or so people in one area believing something that whacked-out, and with 10-12 eyewitnesses... it's still just a few nutjobs.

Wileama wrote:Side note: has a reporter ever asked for a tour of the SWA for some positive happy fluff article?

sounds like a good premise for a comedy fic... "Quick, hide the weapons! Seal up the indoor range! Dismantle the obstacle course! Put up a playground! Buy some doll houses! Okay, girls... act natural!"

by **emperor** Sat 6 Oct 2007 - 22:37

sounds like a good premise for a comedy fic... "Quick, hide the weapons! Seal up the indoor range! Dismantle the obstacle course! Put up a playground! Buy some doll houses! Okay, girls... act natural!"

How funny if it's true!!! Very Happy

by **boomer_gonz** Sun 7 Oct 2007 - 3:40

emperor wrote:And they're in ICU room both.

Can SWA let Henrietta & Triela visit their handlers?

More than likely they'll let them view Jose and Hillshire through an acrylic window, but not enter their rooms.

How much this bad news effect to these two girls performance?

Probably very greatly to an extreme sense. Being Gen-1 cyborgs and the close emotional bond they have will cause them to stop functioning within their combat parameters.

by Wileama Sun 7 Oct 2007 - 5:43

LoC978 wrote:Very true. in fact, looking back at the Elsa incident, I think I'll concede most of my points on this matter. at that point at least, they didn't have a way to know if a fratello was in trouble on their time off. They may have implemented something since though. (I'd recommend an audio bug of some kind)

Tell the truth, I think a position bug would be better. It's not going to be the best indicator. A car accident may look like the handler has just stopped by the side of the road for some reason. When the ambulance takes the they thing they've just started to travel again. Only when they stop at the hospital does the agency realize. However in the case of Elsa, it would be clear something is up.

Guard1: "Hey has Elsa moved from that spot in the middle of the park in the last two hours?"
Guard2: "Ummm... No..."
Guard1: "That can't be good, Call Lauro..."

It wont get you there before the paramedics most times, but it would be better then an audio bug. You give the Fratello's some sense of privacy. Not to mention they could use a what ever system Claes had in episode 12 of the anime. That, and you could find your cyborgs should something go wrong. Though there does seem to be an issue with line of sight for the transmitting system.

LoC978 wrote:I don't think the article would be written in a major publication. publishing something that unbelievable would make almost any magazine/newspaper look like a tabloid. also, in a population as dense as any Italian city, a thousand or so people in one area believing something that whacked-out, and with 10-12 eyewitnesses... it's still just a few nutjobs.

Agree to disagree?

LoC978 wrote:sounds like a good premise for a comedy fic... "Quick, hide the weapons! Seal up the indoor range! Dismantle the obstacle course! Put up a playground! Buy some doll houses! Okay, girls... act natural!"

First off, hiliarity. Second, having had time to think about it, I'm left wondering if the SWA from time to time, actually does what they say they do. It would make for great cover, not to mention a place to point these kind of questions. I'm sure there is an entire unit in section 2 dedicated to keeping up their cover.

ElfenMagix wrote:But the SWA needs your support. And generious amount will be greatly appreicated!

This is SWA Director Lorenzo, urging for your support.'

Lorenzo would be laughing all the way to the bank. :lol!:

by LoC978 Sun 7 Oct 2007 - 10:52

Wileama wrote:Tell the truth, I think a position bug would be better.

I was adding to my previous statement... I would want both position and audio.

Wileama wrote:but it would be better then an audio bug. You give the Fratello's some sense of privacy. Not to mention they could use a what ever system Claes had in episode 12 of the anime. That, and you could find your cyborgs should something go wrong. Though there does seem to be an issue with line of sight for the transmitting system.

oh yeah... a GPS tracking chip in a tooth. all they're missing is the inner-ear microphone.
**edit** forgot: privacy? hah! they don't have to know. and if it was my agency, the rules would be a bit more restrictive...

Wileama wrote:Agree to disagree?

sounds good.

by Wileama Sun 7 Oct 2007 - 11:38

LoC978 wrote:I was adding to my previous statement... I would want both position and audio.

Ah, I see. Very good carry on.

LoC978 wrote:**edit** forgot: privacy? hah! they don't have to know. and if it was my agency, the rules would be a bit more restrictive...

Good point. Still it creates a record of what the girls have done. I don't like too many records, they allow things like, oh say, prosecution. Though I suppose there really isn't anything stopping it. You are right though, there isn't anything stopping you from doing it. I just feel that it's redundant, and expensive.

LoC978 wrote:sounds good.

Great so now we can move on to trading insults, you piece of slime! Razz

by LoC978 Sun 7 Oct 2007 - 11:47

hehe... slime.

Wileama wrote:
Still it creates a record of what the girls have done. I don't like too many records, they allow things like, oh say, prosecution.

you could either destroy records after one week of storage, or (more expensive) not record at all, but have a 3-shift listening post

Wileama wrote:
I just feel that it's redundant, and expensive.

when it's the difference between
"ZOMG! they had an accident! get someone out there, NOW!"
and
"What? they're being moved to the hospital?! get someone there, NOW!"
... I think you would save money on funding cover-ups, in the long run.

by **boomer_gonz** Sun 7 Oct 2007 - 13:47

LoC978 wrote:hehe... slime.

Wileama wrote:
Still it creates a record of what the girls have done. I don't like too many records, they allow things like, oh say, prosecution.
you could either destroy records after one week of storage, or (more expensive) not record at all, but have a 3-shift listening post
Wileama wrote:
I just feel that it's redundant, and expensive.
when it's the difference between
"ZOMG! they had an accident! get someone out there, NOW!"
and
"What? they're being moved to the hospital?! get someone there, NOW!"
... I think you would save money on funding cover-ups, in the long run.

I HAVE A SOLUTION!!!!
Hard copies last no longer than a 24 hour period.
Everything else is backed up to a secured archive server that is coded with a password that when not entered every hour will purge the entire system.

That's purge, not format, as in wiped clean. Squeaky even.

by LoC978 Sun 7 Oct 2007 - 15:45

That's purge, not format, as in wiped clean. Squeaky even.

currently, the only way to do that quickly is the destruction of the drive. ever DoD wiped your HDD? takes a minimum of 4 hours. Gutmann wipes take considerably longer.
So yeah... it'd have to be hardwired to a small bomb.

by **ElfenMagix** Sun 7 Oct 2007 - 16:17

Even the CIA has their records some form of recorded format and dead trees. The issues here is to have jurisdiction over everyone so when somebody comes in with a search warrent, it can be overridden. As in the case of the Death of Elsa
de Sica; Section 1 tried to get information, Section 2 gave them a whole song and dance routine...

Not even the police messed with Section 2 with this investigation.

by **boomer_gonz** Mon 8 Oct 2007 - 3:02

[quote="LoC978]currently, the only way to do that quickly is the destruction of the drive. ever DoD wiped your HDD? takes a minimum of 4 hours. Gutmann wipes take considerably longer.
So yeah... it'd have to be hardwired to a small bomb.[/quote]

Done, my own RAID controller is rigged with an EM emitter should anybody come pounding down my door. I have nothing of interest to them or the copyright police, but you never know. Them and the cops are the biggest bullies on the block. They can do damn near anything now in the name of the patriot act.

They took my Winchester!!!

by **Nachtsider** Mon 8 Oct 2007 - 3:06

Pardon me if I come across as ignorant, but I thought you people in America can own any kind of rifle as long as it isn't easily concealable or capable of firing fully-automatic.

by LoC978 Mon 8 Oct 2007 - 3:13

Pardon me if I come across as ignorant, but I thought you people in America can own any firearm as long as it isn't concealable or capable of firing fully-automatic.

if you live outside city limits, sure, who's gonna check you anyway? (My uncle even owns a few that do have a full-auto mode)
We seem to be mostly city dwellers in this community, though.
And Californians have it harder than most. They have more yuppies in their government than you could slaughter in a day with a good meat cleaver. Not that I have anything against yuppies... Wink

by **boomer_gonz** Mon 8 Oct 2007 - 3:19

As per my location, I can vouch for this.

Just because this particular model shotgun lacks a trigger disconnector it's considered a "heavy-gauge secondary-automatic" and thus cannot be owned by a private civilian.

by LoC978 Mon 8 Oct 2007 - 3:23

...which is complete bullshit on the state's part. you can own a benelli nova but you can't own a fucking M1897?! ... I know a guy with an old 10-gauge. I bet they'd take that away down there, too...

by **Nachtsider** Mon 8 Oct 2007 - 3:27

I support Ronnie Barrett's decision not to sell his M82s to California law-enforcement agencies after that state's legislation banned the retail of those weapons to private citizens.

by **emperor** Mon 8 Oct 2007 - 3:39

Section 1 tried to get information, Section 2 gave them a whole song and dance routine...

That's what Jean did. 8)

by **boomer_gonz** Mon 8 Oct 2007 - 3:40

As do I.

If those who have ill intentions and no regard wish to harm me or mine and/or wish to appropriate my property through threat of force using assualt and military-grade weapons...

...then as a private citizen I should also have the right to arm myself in such a manner that I can properly defend myself, my loved ones, and my property from such individuals.

by Wileama Mon 8 Oct 2007 - 6:37

LoC978 wrote:currently, the only way to do that quickly is the destruction of the drive. ever DoD wiped your HDD? takes a minimum of 4 hours. Gutmann wipes take considerably longer.
So yeah... it'd have to be hardwired to a small bomb.

Not quite a bomb, but close enough for government work wouldn't you say? From my understanding it releases an acid mist onto the platters. The only way to get the data, is retrieve the data before the mist, or go bomb squad on it.

boomer_gonz wrote:Done, my own RAID controller is rigged with an EM emitter should anybody come pounding down my door.

Wait, EM emitter? So what a massive electromagnet? Or is this Star Trek?

boomer_gonz wrote:...then as a private citizen I should also have the right to arm myself in such a manner that I can properly defend myself, my loved ones, and my property from such individuals.

Actually the spirit of the second amendment was to allow the masses to be able to revolt against an oppressive government. Not to protect you from your neighbors.

I grew up in Cambridge, MA. Liberal to the extreme. For the longest time I couldn't understand why a person would actually want to own a fire arm. I started to understand during my brief time at Georgia Tech. I really came to an understanding when I fired my first gun at basic. I'm still uncomfortable around guns, but I get it now.

That being said, I'm sure there are some stupid gun laws. That's not to be unexpected though, laws have a way of getting stupid quick. That's not to say I think gun control is a mistake. I don't have a problem with people owning guns. I have a problem with irresponsible people owning guns. I have a problem with teenagers buying guns out of the back of some guys car.

Anyway that's just my two cents...

by **emperor** Mon 8 Oct 2007 - 6:47

I love gun,I read gun magazines and I need it at least one.

Glock 18 is cool for me.

by **boomer_gonz** Mon 8 Oct 2007 - 7:10

Wileama wrote:Wait, EM emitter? So what a massive electromagnet? Or is this Star Trek?

That's actually the best way to put it. With a certain keypress on my keyboard, the electromagnet emmits a singular, sizable EMP destroying the hard drives completly. After that they are oficially oversized drink coasters.

by Wileama Mon 8 Oct 2007 - 7:25

Maybe it's just my terminology, but I just dislike the way you use EMP. EMP to me implies a certain scale, that I doubt your hitting. I've never heard of a commercial system like this. Closest thing I've heard was electromagnets in door frames. Did you have to install that magnet yourself, or did it come with the HD?

by **ElfenMagix** Mon 8 Oct 2007 - 10:47

I would prefer using a massive RAM-based Drive. Highspeed and if trouble comes- pull the plug!

Something like the GigaByte iRam Drive, but on the tetrabyte size range!

http://digg.com/hardware/Video_of_how_fast_the_Gigabyte_I-RAM_loads_Windows._WOW

by Wileama Mon 8 Oct 2007 - 10:59

Your talking about Flash Memory, or some other solid state, nonvolatile memory. Ram loses it's bits when power is removed. Not good for data storage. I think you can get your hands on a 20 gig flash drive now-a-days, or with in the year.

by LoC978 Mon 8 Oct 2007 - 13:14

I don't have a problem with people owning guns. I have a problem with irresponsible people owning guns. I have a problem with teenagers buying guns out of the back of some guys car.

amen. I'm actually all for gun control, just not how it's currently implemented...

by **ElfenMagix** Mon 8 Oct 2007 - 19:20

Wileama wrote:Your talking about Flash Memory, or some other solid state, nonvolatile memory. Ram loses it's bits when power is removed. Not good for data storage. I think you can get your hands on a 20 gig flash drive now-a-days, or with in the year.

No, I'm talking about RAM...
Of course, with a battery back up.

But just in case, there would be a BIG OLE RED BUTTON on the wall, surrounded by 2 inches of plate glass and a 50pound sledge hammer next to, with a sign above it: [In case of Invasion, Court Order, Etc...]

BTW: For server applications, there are 200GB Flash drive units... But I use the RAM Drive units- access speeds are :affraid:

by Wileama Tue 9 Oct 2007 - 0:08

Ram HD?! I've never once heard of such a thing. Where the hell did you buy it?! Who is crazy enough to use it?!

by **boomer_gonz** Tue 9 Oct 2007 - 9:23

I've played with it in server function, but one power outage and a faulty UEP sent that idea packing, literally. I gutted it and sold the parts on e-bay. All proceeds went to my RAID controller.

8)

by **ElfenMagix** Tue 9 Oct 2007 - 10:12

I play with it in a server setup I have for a friend.

Options are:

Centatek Rocket drive (http://www.cenatek.com)
If Jose and Hilshire had an accident/serious wounded!!!! Img_rocketdrive_large

If Jose and Hilshire had an accident/serious wounded!!!! Img_rocketdrive_large

Gigabyte iRam (http://www.gigabyte.us)
If Jose and Hilshire had an accident/serious wounded!!!! Desktop_productimage_i-ram_1.3_small

Or HyperOS Hyperdrive (http://www.hyperossystems.co.uk)
If Jose and Hilshire had an accident/serious wounded!!!! Hd4box5

Only issue is the power failure problem; but with a good hard drive in the background to back up what the RAM drive has, it would not be a (major) problem. But the speed... whoa...

Let me put it in terms most can understand:
-From Flicking the power switch on the back of the PC, Windows XP Boot up time: 7 seconds.

From a raid that I built one from these- accessing a 10gb database in under 1.2 seconds.

So when speed is an issue (especailly when a lot of files are cached onto the hard drive), this is wickly fast. Except for being burned by the power failure issue (I've too been bitten a few times), if you try, you would not go back to a standard hard drive.

by Wileama Tue 9 Oct 2007 - 14:58

I suppose your right, it's just such a crazy idea to me. HD made out of ram. Holy cow...

man you think we could get any further off topic?

by **ElfenMagix** Tue 9 Oct 2007 - 16:57

We can always start again and put Jose and Hillshire in the hospital...
Hmmm... Where's my baseball bat?
*WHAM!* *WHAM!*

Done! Back to topic!

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