Jose Croce

Voiced by: Hidenobu Kiuchi (Japanese), John Burgmeier (English) in Gunslinger Girl
Voiced by: Kōzō Mito in Gunslinger Girl: Il Teatrino

An agent of Section 2. Henrietta's handler and Jean's younger brother. Unlike the other fratello, Giuseppe truly lives up to the name, caring for Henrietta like a protective brother and showing a good deal of interest and concern for her welfare. As such, he attempts to minimize Henrietta's conditioning as much as possible. Years ago, Giuseppe had a younger sister who adored him and wished to join the Carabinieri when she was older, in order to protect him. She resembled Henrietta somewhat and died in a terrorist attack which possibly caused her to drown. Due to his sister's death, Giuseppe gained a deep appreciation for life and a hatred towards terrorism. Henrietta may represent Giuseppe's attempt to bring his sister back into his life somehow, as evidenced by her name's origins, her physical likeness to the girl, and the fact that she is seen wearing one of Enrica's dresses in volume six. He also feels tired pestering Henriette almost feel sad at his attempt to turn Henriette into his sister shown in volume 6

The name "Giuseppe" is used only in ADV's English adaptation of the manga; in the Japanese-language manga and anime, this character is named Joze (ジョゼ, Joze^{[color=#00e]?}), which has been rendered as Jose and even Giuse^[9] for the North American DVD release from FUNimation. Both forms have the same meaning: they are translations of the name "Joseph."

credit:wikipedia

emperor wrote:He also feels tired pestering Henriette almost feel sad at his attempt to turn Henriette into his sister shown in volume 6

I don't understand this part - it seems poorly written, and the message is unclear.

Nachtsider wrote:

emperor wrote:He also feels tired pestering Henriette almost feel sad at his attempt to turn Henriette into his sister shown in volume 6

I don't understand this part - it seems poorly written, and the message is unclear.

Can you re-write that one you qouted?

I could, if I understood the message...

Jose is a name that derives from an italian name (approximately of 1600) of Gioseffo (it is pronounced like Jose-ffo and is similar to Joseph). In the italian edition (and in english version) of manga, Jose became Giuseppe but perhaps is in origin Gioseffo, considerate Jose for pronunciation (jose-ffo). Names like Jose (or Giuse) and Jean (or Jan) became similar to italian names like Aida want but original name are trascipted by autor after his personal search in italian music and letterature . Infact Gioseffo in not used from about 1800 and Jose now is Giuseppe or Joseph in America for similar pronunciation.

What did Jose mean when he said he was being fake or something to triela? Is his last name Croce or Cloce?

Well Japanese pronunciation doesn't have a native "L" sound, so they often replace it with an "R" sound.

I personally believe it is Croce, but a Japanese speaker would pronounce both "Croce" and "Cloce" with an "R".

hydra282 wrote:What did Jose mean when he said he was being fake or something to triela? Is his last name Croce or Cloce?

where did you see that? when does Joze ever speak to Triela anyway?

Heniretta : YOUR SPEAKING TO HER BECAUSE SHE'S HOTTER THAN ME ISN'T IT!!!!

hydra282 wrote:What did Jose mean when he said he was being fake or something to triela? Is his last name Croce or Cloce?

All your base are belong to us.

Croce = Cloce
in the same way

Jean= Jan
&
Triela= Tor-yiella

Sorry, I don't know why I wrote Triela. I think he was talking to Bianchi.

What did Jose mean when he said he was being fake or something

The discussion was about how he was having a tougher time finding ways to promote Henrietta's affection for him. It was really only that affection which made her listen to him on a daily basis, much as the discipline she recieves is the tool Jean uses for Rico's obedience. Conditioning aside, the cyborgs need a personal incentive to do what the handlers say. Jose was having to fake/exaggerate his affection for her to some degree, and it was wearing him out.

Now, Jose at that time was not physically affectionate with Henrietta, a la hugging, pats on the back, etc, something even Priscilla noticed and voiced with; "Have you noticed how much time Jose spends with Henrietta, but never actually touches her?"
Henrietta is similar enough to his sister that he has real reluctanct to get closer to her, fearing the pain that the physical and emotional memories would bring back. But he also, and simultaneously, wants to be closer to avoid feeling about Henrietta the same pain he feels for ignoring his sister before her death. He's also a fair person and knows that Henrietta deserves affection for her efforts.

At some point after speaking with Bianchi, he comes to terms with that and becomes much more pro-active and physical in the way he treats her, realizing that avoiding getting too close is short-changing her as an individual, something his own conscience won't allow. The signs of her approaching end only fuels his need to get in as much living with her as he can.

Thank you for clearing that up for me Maverick. Has the tombstone for Jose's daddy always said Cloce on it, or is that just in the translation I got?

Well said, maverick.

hydra282 wrote:Sorry, I don't know why I wrote Triela. I think he was talking to Bianchi.

ow, that scene, ya maverick explained it pretty well already

Ok, since we’ve started to learn a good bit more about the girls and their handlers in recent chapters and episodes, I thought it might not be a bad time to revise their sections in the wiki. I also took the liberty of trimming them a bit, since in many cases they were more plot summaries than character summaries. Let me know what you think, please.




An agent in Section 2, Henrietta's handler and Jean's younger brother. A former officer with the Carabinieri and son of a powerful Public Prosecutor (father) and Defense Attorney (mother), both of whom were killed in a terrorist car bombing with his younger sister, Enrica, whom Henrietta has a strong resemblance to. Jose is strongly against treating the children the agency "fixed up" as mere tools of vengeance and is quite aware of their propensity for feeling emotion and pain, as well as each having a separate consciousness.

If the information on the mother been verified? cite entries on both parents.

It's in Chapter 65.

Jose was in the 1st Carabinieri Parachute Battalion '' Tuscania ''

emperor wrote:
Unlike the other fratello, Giuseppe truly lives up to the name, caring for Henrietta like a protective brother and showing a good deal of interest and concern for her welfare.

Sorry but i've got a feeling that Hillshire is also shows concern for Triela welfare and so on... Probably not like Jose does, but still it's something. Just i don't think that it is good to contrast Giuseppe with other fratello, because it's not like all of them are same in any concern (except for some basic stuff). Just look at Alessandro and Petrushka too. It's not like Giuseppe is really that special...

Trimutius wrote:

emperor wrote:
Unlike the other fratello, Giuseppe truly lives up to the name, caring for Henrietta like a protective brother and showing a good deal of interest and concern for her welfare.

Sorry but i've got a feeling that Hillshire is also shows concern for Triela welfare and so on... Probably not like Jose does, but still it's something. Just i don't think that it is good to contrast Giuseppe with other fratello, because it's not like all of them are same in any concern (except for some basic stuff). Just look at Alessandro and Petrushka too. It's not like Giuseppe is really that special...

I dare say what Emporer was pointing out is that Giuseppe's relationship with Henrietta is that of an older brother (a surrogate for what he's lost), while the other fratelli have carved out their own personal niche's. Hillshire/Triela seems to be more of a father-daughter relationship, at least from Victor's perspective (Triela may feel differently). Alessandro/Petrushka is a mentor-protégé relationship which provides it with some...ahem...flexability. These handlers show no diminished concern for their charges, but certainly don't view them as "sisters."

Of course, Jose has now chucked Henrietta under a bus to get back at Dante...

A question for a fanfic. Did they ever mention what booze Jose is getting smashed on? Grappa, whisky, Mad Dog 20 20?

Odon wrote:A question for a fanfic. Did they ever mention what booze Jose is getting smashed on? Grappa, whisky, Mad Dog 20 20?

When did he ever get smashed in the series in Canon?
He's mostly a wine drinker and if that in moderation. He does have to set an example for Henrietta... that is until chapter 65+.

ElfenMagix wrote:

Odon wrote:A question for a fanfic. Did they ever mention what booze Jose is getting smashed on? Grappa, whisky, Mad Dog 20 20?

When did he ever get smashed in the series in Canon?

I wouldn't say he was smashed, but in the chapter Phantasms, I have to believe he was hitting the drink at least a little hard to start seeing Enrica's shade.

Kiskaloo wrote:I wouldn't say he was smashed, but in the chapter Phantasms, I have to believe he was hitting the drink at least a little hard to start seeing Enrica's shade.

That was Jean.

I went back and looked at that chapter (29) and Yu nevers shows the bottle. In the anime OVA it's an amber liquor...draw conclusions as you see fit.

As for the chapter where Giuseppe gets hammered and sees Enrica (73?) I don't have a copy.

Aw, man, do you really need to be so beholden to the source material that you need to accurately duplicate the type of liquor Jose is getting sloshed on? Nobody is going to call you out if you skimp on it.

Jose isn't drunk when he's visited by Enrica's ghost in chapter 72 & 73 - he's not seen drinking, and there isn't any bottle or glass on the desk behind him.

He does have a drunk scene in a flashback after the car bombing that sets this whole gory story into motion. The bottle there looks to be a wine bottle:

I think it's an easy bet he was drunk, nevertheless.

A drinking problem on his part was already hinted at way back in Volume Two.

Didn't Jose and Lauro hit the bar in the first anime series?

Kiskaloo wrote:Didn't Jose and Lauro hit the bar in the first anime series?

By Lauro's invite.

Nachtsider wrote:Aw, man, do you really need to be so beholden to the source material that you need to accurately duplicate the type of liquor Jose is getting sloshed on? Nobody is going to call you out if you skimp on it.

Yes, I'm likely overdoing this. Anyway, it looks like he's sharing a bottle of Auchentoshan whiskey with Fermi in the anime, so I'll just go with that.

Me likes Jose. He's a nice guy. Really, he comes accross to me as an ol' Softie!

Kiskaloo wrote:Well Japanese pronunciation doesn't have a native "L" sound, so they often replace it with an "R" sound.

I personally believe it is Croce, but a Japanese speaker would pronounce both "Croce" and "Cloce" with an "R".

I know old thread etc. And I hope not against rule and pardon my english I took it as a minor but in Japan, I am now in premed in California. But this is not true. Yes we do not have L's in our language tho that "r" this is a US stereotype which many of us in Japan resent, we have many different accents or dialects as you do in America or Russia. Only a non Japanese speaker would say this. No offense. I'm from Kyoto born and raised my family in Japan or I guess our family in general is many generations long (cousin in US is doing a family tree) and last Ive seen on paper was somewhere in the 1600's but its longer than that I was told. But no do not believe the R thing as where do you hear that? TV or media right? Yes some cannot pronounce certain letters and also many Japanese words do not have an English translation. To be fair as a large part of my family US and are 7gens long now. In fact its where I live (older sister)while I attend University.

Anyway from a actual Japanese citizen sorry but this statement is not very accurate nor true as even my great grand father could pronounce L's as can nearly everyone I know only time I see this is on US tv or movies they do that with Chinese people as well. Its a racist thing that probably started a very long time ago. Again no offense and not saying this post is racist just pointing it out. LOL I bet no one will see this anyway and I probably did break a rule.

Ja ne!

Yumi wrote:

Kiskaloo wrote:Well Japanese pronunciation doesn't have a native "L" sound, so they often replace it with an "R" sound.

I personally believe it is Croce, but a Japanese speaker would pronounce both "Croce" and "Cloce" with an "R".

I know old thread etc. And I hope not against rule and pardon my english I took it as a minor but in Japan, I am now in premed in California. But this is not true. Yes we do not have L's in our language tho that "r" this is a US stereotype which many of us in Japan resent, we have many different accents or dialects as you do in America or Russia. Only a non Japanese speaker would say this. No offense. I'm from Kyoto born and raised my family in Japan or I guess our family in general is many generations long (cousin in US is doing a family tree) and last Ive seen on paper was somewhere in the 1600's but its longer than that I was told. But no do not believe the R thing as where do you hear that? TV or media right? Yes some cannot pronounce certain letters and also many Japanese words do not have an English translation. To be fair as a large part of my family US and are 7gens long now. In fact its where I live (older sister)while I attend University.

Anyway from a actual Japanese citizen sorry but this statement is not very accurate nor true as even my great grand father could pronounce L's as can nearly everyone I know only time I see this is on US tv or movies they do that with Chinese people as well. Its a racist thing that probably started a very long time ago. Again no offense and not saying this post is racist just pointing it out. LOL I bet no one will see this anyway and I probably did break a rule.

Ja ne!

Hello Yumi!

Welcome to the forums   Good to have a japanese around here. You can join the chat box if you want to, so we can speak each other.

I hope you have a good time here.  

Yumi wrote:

Kiskaloo wrote:Well Japanese pronunciation doesn't have a native "L" sound, so they often replace it with an "R" sound.

I personally believe it is Croce, but a Japanese speaker would pronounce both "Croce" and "Cloce" with an "R".

I know old thread etc. And I hope not against rule and pardon my english I took it as a minor but in Japan, I am now in premed in California. But this is not true. Yes we do not have L's in our language tho that "r" this is a US stereotype which many of us in Japan resent, we have many different accents or dialects as you do in America or Russia. Only a non Japanese speaker would say this. No offense. I'm from Kyoto born and raised my family in Japan or I guess our family in general is many generations long (cousin in US is doing a family tree) and last Ive seen on paper was somewhere in the 1600's but its longer than that I was told. But no do not believe the R thing as where do you hear that? TV or media right? Yes some cannot pronounce certain letters and also many Japanese words do not have an English translation. To be fair as a large part of my family US and are 7gens long now. In fact its where I live (older sister)while I attend University.

Anyway from a actual Japanese citizen sorry but this statement is not very accurate nor true as even my great grand father could pronounce L's as can nearly everyone I know only time I see this is on US tv or movies they do that with Chinese people as well. Its a racist thing that probably started a very long time ago. Again no offense and not saying this post is racist just pointing it out. LOL I bet no one will see this anyway and I probably did break a rule.

Ja ne!

Fortunately, this is one of the few forums where reviving old threads is 100% ok. If you have something to add to a conversation, then say it.

Anyway, welcome to the board. Make sure to swing past the introductions board and say "hi".

I'd love to see/hear the difference in a YouTube video if you are so inclined.

Though it may be dialect related in Japan, I've seen several places in anime where "L" was replaced by "R", and not just in the English trans either. Black Lagoon's "Sports Praza" in the second season is an example. And, at least to my mid-western English ears (Well, Ohio. We don't have an accent unless we use one lazily), most attempts by Japanese speakers who are not quite fluent in English, to say the letter "L" sounds quite like an "R". While this, and many other things, have often been used as a means of denigrating foreign speakers, I think it is possible to look too far into it and find insult where none is intended.

To be fair, I found the localized "Flanca" interpretation of "Franca" in GSG's second season to be a travesty. Franca is an Italian name, whereas Flanca is not. Flanca is Polish, and Franca (likely a variant of Francesca) is certainly an Italian character.
Looking at the effort put into GSG's locales and culture, I would say that Croce is the correct spelling of Jose's last name, not Cloce.
Croce (google translates it as "Cross" and the root word is Crocetta or Crocifissa) likely represents the family's plight within the story, as they are sacrificed by evil and were representative of the greater good, a la their father's work.

How long do you think Jose had been Henrietta's Handler for before the start of the series? ( Book One / Page Eight ) - When they went to kill the Albanian and she lost her temper when the Pandanian threatened Jose and grabbed him by the collar. It was after this that he started to treat her nicer, taking to her the roof and showing her the stars, generally talking to her, ect...

Ashesofanotherlife wrote:How long do you think Jose had been Henrietta's Handler for before the start of the series? ( Book One / Page Eight ) - When they went to kill the Albanian and she lost her temper when the Pandanian threatened Jose and grabbed him by the collar. It was after this that he started to treat her nicer, taking to her the roof and showing her the stars, generally talking to her, ect...

I would have given them a bit of time prior to that; six months to a year? They do at least appear to be a combat ready unit by that stage, if not one as trusted and practised as Hilshire and Triela (though that is probably less to do with time in role and more to do with the differing capabilities/personalities/reliability of the two fratelli in question). Someone with more patience than me could probably take the expected lifespan of a Gen 01 and work backward through the manga (it does, afterall, at least track seasons and holidays... from memory Triela did at least two Christmases in Naples before 'Etta started to completely lose it, so I would guess no more than a year for the Jose/Etta fratello to have been together -  assuming a 3 year Gen01 life expectancy) from where 'Etta started losing her marbles.

I think Jose started being nice to 'Etta before that mission though. The bit where they're looking at Venus(?) through the rifle scope, which presumably was his inspiration for continuing to show here the stars, seemed to be earlier in her training. If nothing else, it also has a black background for the panels, which tends to signify a flashback in the manga.