Has Angelica changed beyond recognition?

In volume 5 of the manga and in an episode of the 2nd season of the anime, Marco seems to be of the mindset that Angelica is no longer the girl that he cared about in his early days. What do you guys think? Is he right or wrong?

Personally, while Angelica has changed somewhat, it's merely the natural progression of how humans evolve and change over time based on their experiences.

She's still kind, gentle, friendly and angelic just as she was before. While her experiences as a junior operative may have affected her and while she may have some memory problems thanks to the conditioning drugs, it doesn't mean that she's stopped being the girl that Marco cares so much about.

Of course, that's just my opinion based on observations on Angelica's behavior in flashbacks and in the present day.

I agree wholeheartedly, and tend to think that that comment is just what it sounds like: Marco being emo, because he, well, is. However, as the manga/seasons progress, it also seems to me that Marco doesn't believe his own statement-- by the time of Volume 9, Marco is, more or less, her caring but gruff father all over again.

...which is, of course, what makes said volume that much more painful for all involved.

Marco's cold, detatched attitude smacked of defeatism, of sweeping the issues at hand under the carpet - something probably stemming from the fact that he blamed Angie's breakdown and all the work that this entailed for contributing to his breakup with Patricia. Needless to say, he was wrong to think that of Angie - all this was hardly the poor kid's fault. It almost infuriated me to see that only a near-death experience on Angie's part in Episode Thirteen of Season One and some prodding from Henrietta could melt his icy heart and make him start reverting to the warm, kind man he used to be.

Angie's heroic death was definitely an expensive lesson - one that shattered Marco almost completely, awakening him to the old adage that 'you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone'. It's an expensive lesson that we all could have done without, though (Marco included). Everything between him and Angie was well back on the road to normalcy at that point in time; the incident with the truck bomb threw a spanner into the works in a very shocking, tragic way. I've still yet to recover from the events of that installment, really, and can never truly forgive Yu for snatching Angie away like that...

Nachtsider wrote:Angie's heroic death was definitely an expensive lesson - one that shattered Marco almost completely, awakening him to the old adage that 'you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone'. It's an expensive lesson that we all could have done without, though (Marco included). Everything between him and Angie was well back on the road to normalcy at that point in time; the incident with the truck bomb threw a spanner into the works in a very shocking, tragic way. I've still yet to recover from the events of that installment, really, and can never truly forgive Yu for snatching Angie away like that...

Amen brother.

Marco knows Angie's gonna die sooner or later so he was already in grief he must have already reached the 4th degree of grief by then.

5 stages of grief:

Denial: Angie can't die! the doctors will help her.
Anger: It's the stupid doctor's faults!
Bargaining: If only she could remember the story I tell her.
Depression:She is no longer the girl that I cared about in the early days
Acceptance: She's gonna die anyway

Danjo3 wrote:

Nachtsider wrote:Angie's heroic death was definitely an expensive lesson - one that shattered Marco almost completely, awakening him to the old adage that 'you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone'. It's an expensive lesson that we all could have done without, though (Marco included). Everything between him and Angie was well back on the road to normalcy at that point in time; the incident with the truck bomb threw a spanner into the works in a very shocking, tragic way. I've still yet to recover from the events of that installment, really, and can never truly forgive Yu for snatching Angie away like that...

Amen brother.

I second that Amen.

Angiegarde wrote:In volume 5 of the manga and in an episode of the 2nd season of the anime, Marco seems to be of the mindset that Angelica is no longer the girl that he cared about in his early days. What do you guys think? Is he right or wrong?

Angie has changed by so many ways on so many levels. As per the anime and Manga 'The Pasta Prince', Angie was a very young girl (between 6 - 8, I dare say 5) which the SWA took at least 2 years to rebuild her back as a cyborg but kept her memories intact. Marco has to help her along with her recovery, keep her mind off her parents which she kept asking about, and train her in both use of her cyborg parts and then as weapons specailist she became. Angie was a strong girl then, and willing to learn from Marco. She knew something happened to her, but could not understand what it was.

Then came that incident where she forgot everything through fault of the SWA doctors as stated in the anime. Up to this point, Angie was top notch and the agency's best assassin. All that became a moot point and Angie basically became a very needy girl in terms of attention and retraining because she forgot everything, and I can probably bet that she forgot about Marco for awhile too. Yes, she was needy- as needy as Henrietta is. As such, her personality changed. Given time, she started to out grow this, and become a 'useful' assassin once again. She was becoming herself again. But the damage is already done.

At the end, it seemed that Angie was getting her memories back and her relationship with Marco, in her eyes, improving.

So yes, Angie underwent through a lot. Perhaps too much. But none of this was fault of her own, which Marco knew who to put the blame on- the SWA Doctors. And he would be right. The medical staff needs a major ass kicking.

I disagree about Angie's age, Elfen (okay, okay - I won't turn this into another 'The Cyborgs Don't Grow!' thread), but I agree about the medical staff. It's Gilliani in particular who needs his ass kicked so hard that his pants end up smelling of shoe polish - Bianchi's a nice guy who actually cares.

Dr. Gilliani was the one that recomended the brainwashing of Claes right?, the one with glasses and the weird hair

That's him, all right.

Yup, just looking at him makes me wanna whack him in the face with the butt of an AK-74.

I agree that Doctor Gilliani is to blame for Angelica's various problems. Him and his stupid conditioning drugs, bah!!

If I was Marco, I'd be hostile towards Gilliani on a regular basis with the occasional bout of yelling at him when things get bad for Angelica. In other words, if I was Marco, I'd focus much of my verbal and mental anger on him which he might actually do. However, I'd focus it on Gilliani INSTEAD of Angelica (ideally at least).

Doctor Bianchi at least actually cares about Angelica and the other girls which makes him ok in my book.