Thoughts On the "Original" Gunslinger Girl

NOTE: A WEIRD SORT OF SPOILERS WITHIN. DON'T READ THIS IS YOU HAVEN'T READ BUT ARE PLANNING TO READ "GUNSLINGER GIRL: TATAKAU MONOTACHI".

So, I was wondering: has anyone else read Aida-sensei's doujin-style prototype for GSG, Tatakau Monotachi? I got my hands on (part of) it last night, after a few months of searching. (The thing seemed to be legendary at first.) Much to my surprise, it was very...different from what ended up being published and serialized.

Unfortunately, all I can comment on is what is apparently a "gaiden" chapter from the larger opus (that's the only part I was able to track down).

From what I understand, the rest of it starred Rico, not Henrietta (who supposedly didn't even appear until the gaiden). Also, Petra and 'Sandro are in it from the beginning of what I've read. Their relationship is a lot more Elsa/Lauro-esque. Petra is not bubbly and innocent at all. Most of the girls look roughly the same, though. Triela is a bit more boyish. ;P

On the other hand, in the gaiden, while Henrietta and Jose look basically the same (except Jose has a long scar running across his neck), Petra looks like a glasses-less Claes. 'Sandro, also, looks much older and less "cool".

The plot of the gaiden chapter seems to be about Henrietta and Jose running from the SWA (sorry, all you fanfic writers - Aida-sensei got there first), in particular the Petra-'Sandro team. Henrietta has an injured leg, but they put the other team through their paces - including a coca cola can-shaped grenade (!! ) - and a hailstorm of bullets. 'Sandro doesn't seem to care for Petra at all; when she's shot down by Henrietta, he just nudges her head with his foot and asks "Why/how could you let them get away?"

Jose, on the other hand, is much more genuinely warm toward 'Etta than he is in official canon. He nurses her wounds (she gets shot in the back) and recites poetry to her as she starts to fall asleep. Not exactly the bitter, jaded guy who sees his little sister in Henrietta and for that and apparently only that reason actually treats her like a human being. No, there's Hillshire/Triela-esque chemistry going on here.

The discrepancy that struck me most and sort of both confirmed my suspicions and at the same time made me go "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING, AIDA-SENSEI!?!", though, was the presence of a rather long sex scene (8 pages! O.o) near the end. I mean, even the more pervy GSG fans don't go that far. The only thing that's ever put me off 'shipping 'Etta/Jose romantically (though not to the point of sex) has been that Aida-sensei seems to block hints of Jose's feelings toward her at every turn. But then this comes along, and it's hard to know what to think. Is this canon? Does this mean Aida-sensei approves of H/J and is only toning down the implications for posterity's sake? The characters aren't vastly different enough that it's possible in this scenario but not in official canon, either, so it calls into question the whole nature of their relationship.

That and, you know, Henrietta's still obviously 12-13 in here. >.<


But creeper!sex aside, a few pages just before that has what's probably the most wonderful panel in all of GSG, canon included:



All together now: awww! This picture is just the epitome of sweet, right down to that little hole on the sole of her shoe. XD And to make it cuter, she's not even kissing him, just asking for a hug. X3

But altogether, the general tone of this gaiden chapter seems to be at once hardbitten and sweet. Even the sex scene, while pretty hardcore (>.<), has a feeling of gentleness and genuine caring. I think that, on the whole, it's a really great little short story - though I'd skip *cough*CERTAIN BITS*cough*, myself. Also, if the art style change in Vol. 9 of the manga bothered you, this will, too. Apparently it's not a new style, but an old one. I'm a little concerned for poor 'Etta's innocence - does a reversion in style mean a reversion in content and theme, as well? ;P

But on a more serious note: Has anyone else read this? What are your thoughts on it?

Also, would someone maybe be interested in helping me scanlate this?

Miiko Ashida wrote:That and, you know, Henrietta's still obviously 12-13 in here. >.<

She'll probably always have the physique of an eleven-year-old, Miiko, despite mentally aging to thirteen. Being turned into cyborgs almost certainly results in the girls being mutilated into permanent children.

Nachtsider wrote:

Miiko Ashida wrote:That and, you know, Henrietta's still obviously 12-13 in here. >.<

She'll probably always have the physique of an eleven-year-old, Miiko, despite mentally aging to thirteen. Being turned into cyborgs almost certainly results in the girls being mutilated into permanent children.

I doubt it - unless they performed some very meticulous brain surgery, the natural body itself would continue to send signals for growth, so the cybernetics would probably need replacement. This is my theory and I'm sticking with it! *firmly in denial* See, they say the girls can never grow up, meaning only that they have a tiny lifespan, not necessarily that they don't physically age during that lifespan. Also, Aida's drawing style is famous for fluctuating apparent ages lately - in Vol. 9, Rico looked, at turns, both 10 and 15. So I was also commenting on how the art style makes her seem even younger than she really is.

But I see your point. The most she'll ever be, even if my theory is valid, is 14-15.

Poor 'Etta.

Thing is, Miiko, bone lenghtening is the lynchpin of growth, and I've seen some pretty compelling evidence that the girls' bones are metallic.

But yeah - we can banter about this elsewhere, and not turn this into another 'The Cyborgs Do/Don't Grow Up!' debate...

Nachtsider wrote:Thing is, Miiko, bone lenghtening is the lynchpin of growth, and I've seen some pretty compelling evidence that the girls' bones are metallic.

But yeah - we can banter about this elsewhere, and not turn this into another 'The Cyborgs Do/Don't Grow Up!' debate...

Agreed. I don't really want to debate it at all. ^_^U It's definitely not a cut and dry issue, since it's pretty safe to say the amount of restructuring varies from girl to girl, so some might grow and others might not.

I just feel bad for poor Henrietta - Jose seems like a decent enough guy that while she still looks tiny and 10-ish, she's not gonna get anywhere with those feelings of hers. (Though apparently Aida-sensei thinks differently. -.-)

Danjo would have a field day. He once wrote a nice little story that explored what might happen to the girls if their cybernetic remodification and conditioning were reversible and if they would thereafter be permitted to return to normal lives outside the Agency - Giuseppe and Henrietta ended up tying the knot as soon as she became legal.

Nachtsider wrote:Danjo would have a field day. He once wrote a nice little story that explored what might happen to the girls if their cybernetic remodification and conditioning were reversible and if they would thereafter be permitted to return to normal lives outside the Agency - Giuseppe and Henrietta ended up tying the knot as soon as she became legal.

I've always liked that plot premise, but I've never seen it done believably. :( However, on your recommendation, I'd gladly give it a shot! That is, if you have a title or a link handy.

p.s....Is it wrong that I find that last bit really, really cute? -.-U

Here ya go, Miiko. Danjo didn't completely explain how the conditioning and cybernetics were reversed - it's a bit of a plot hole, but the sheer emotional power of the story more than makes up for it. I'm still more than a little miffed about how he wrote Marco, but oh well. You're not wrong for finding that last bit cute, although Danjo implied that Giuseppe had his eye on Henrietta before she reverted back to normal...

Nachtsider wrote:Here ya go, Miiko. Danjo didn't completely explain how the conditioning and cybernetics were reversed - it's a bit of a plot hole, but the sheer emotional power of the story more than makes up for it. I'm still more than a little miffed about how he wrote Marco, but oh well. You're not wrong for finding that last bit cute, although Danjo implied that Giuseppe had his eye on Henrietta before she reverted back to normal...

Thank you very much!

...Well, since it's basically all but canon, I think I can accept that last part. -.- Not happily, but I can accept it.

But - in the interests of this thread's semi-salvagable topicality - I was wondering, have you read the original doujin series? (If not, would you like me to send you what I have? It's actually quite good, very interesting, and it does tug at your heartstrings. Also, the block of sex in the middle cuts neatly out so you don't miss anything plotwise, and you can keep your image of 'Etta and Giuse intact.)

I badly need someone to discuss this with, because it's interesting to see that what became GSG really started at the (potential) "end", and I sort of wonder whether that's an indicator of what's to come. It gives me hope for the recent Petra-infested volumes!

I've never read it before, Miiko, but would dearly love to do so and discuss the whole thing with you. My e-mail address is pretty much a matter of public record, but I'll post it again nonetheless (nachtsider@yahoo.com). And don't worry - your address will be kept strictly confidential.

Nachtsider wrote:I've never read it before, Miiko, but would dearly love to do so and discuss the whole thing with you. My e-mail address is pretty much a matter of public record, but I'll post it again nonetheless (nachtsider@yahoo.com). And don't worry - your address will be kept strictly confidential.

E-mail is being sent as we speak!

And I'm sorry; I don't mean to come off as dull-witted or to be a nuisance, but it's my personal policy, even if an e-mail address is posted, to ask for it instead of just dropping creepily random e-mails. Sorry if I've at all put you out of your way. : )

(And I really don't care about mine. I'm not a terribly private person.)

You're not dull-witted or anything like that, Miiko - quite on the contrary. While I don't really mind people just dropping in without warning (it takes a lot to creep me out), I certainly do appreciate the courtesy you show. And don't worry about putting me out of my way - I love contact with other Gunslinger Girl fans, and would not mind our continuing to correspond in the slightest.

Now, then... on to the comic proper.

A nice, brisk read, all in all - more due to my lack of comprehension of the text than anything else, to be true. I love the art style utilized in the strip - it's a subdued, muted style with willowy linework, very reminiscent of some traditional Chinese paintings. Seeing Henrietta go up against Claes was mighty interesting - I've always toyed with the idea of cyborgs going up against one another, and am presently working on a relevant fic or two. The 'Raballo' character looks so different... I'm really glad his design was changed for the final product. And while child porn of any kind puts me out, I'm afraid I must admit that the stuff in here is far tamer than some of the smut I've had the misfortune to see.

Thank you so very much for the gift, Miiko - I'm eagerly awaiting your feedback!

Nachtsider wrote:Danjo would have a field day. He once wrote a nice little story that explored what might happen to the girls if their cybernetic remodification and conditioning were reversible and if they would thereafter be permitted to return to normal lives outside the Agency - Giuseppe and Henrietta ended up tying the knot as soon as she became legal

Or so they said.

Nachtsider wrote:Miiko. Danjo didn't completely explain how the conditioning and cybernetics were reversed - it's a bit of a plot hole

As I said before, the first draft of the story had all the technical crap concerning how the girls could go on to adulthood, but when I looked back on it, it bored the shit out of me - and I wrote it. I wanted the story to be entertaining first and fore most, so I played very fast and loose with canon. I just lead the reader to believe it was possible.

Nachtsider wrote:I'm still more than a little miffed about how he wrote Marco, but oh well.

I got a lot of angry e-mail about that. I don’t think Marco would ever abandon Angie. I only wrote it that way because I thought it would seem hooky as hell if it just so happened that all of the core girls were taken, while all of the “red shirts” weren’t. I was trying to inject some realism in to it.

...where do i start? i remember now!

Miiko Ashida wrote:
The discrepancy that struck me most and sort of both confirmed my suspicions and at the same time made me go "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING, AIDA-SENSEI!?!", though, was the presence of a rather long sex scene (8 pages! O.o) near the end. I mean, even the more pervy GSG fans don't go that far. The only thing that's ever put me off 'shipping 'Etta/Jose romantically (though not to the point of sex) has been that Aida-sensei seems to block hints of Jose's feelings toward her at every turn. But then this comes along, and it's hard to know what to think. Is this canon? Does this mean Aida-sensei approves of H/J and is only toning down the implications for posterity's sake? The characters aren't vastly different enough that it's possible in this scenario but not in official canon, either, so it calls into question the whole nature of their relationship.

That and, you know, Henrietta's still obviously 12-13 in here. >.<


But creeper!sex aside, a few pages just before that has what's probably the most wonderful panel in all of GSG, canon included:




But altogether, the general tone of this gaiden chapter seems to be at once hardbitten and sweet. Even the sex scene, while pretty hardcore (>.<), has a feeling of gentleness and genuine caring. I think that, on the whole, it's a really great little short story - though I'd skip *cough*CERTAIN BITS*cough*, myself. Also, if the art style change in Vol. 9 of the manga bothered you, this will, too. Apparently it's not a new style, but an old one. I'm a little concerned for poor 'Etta's innocence - does a reversion in style mean a reversion in content and theme, as well? ;P

I had lolicon in my harddrive all this time?? *dashes for the doujinshi*

wait Etta and Guiseppe go rogue in this story?... darn i wanted to do that

You mean you don't consider Angie a 'core girl', Danjo? I still think that 'realism' would have been better served if you'd adhered more closely to Marco's known behavior.

The 'technical crap' you could have approached one of us with, actually - we'd have been more than willing to help you out. Do correct me if I'm wrong, but I've gained the impression that you aren't too much of a technical person, what with your minimal participation in the gun threads and all.

i checked the rest of "that folder" and i can say that atleast the first one had a story... the rest was just plain loli hentai *shift+ delete*

Nachtsider wrote:You mean you don't consider Angie a 'core girl', Danjo? I still think that 'realism' would have been better served if you'd adhered more closely to Marco's known behavior.

What I’m saying is that Angie IS a core girl. And in a fairy tale/happy/Saturday morning cartoon world, all of the main characters in a situation would be saved. I didn’t want to do it that way. I wanted to show that a lot of the time, life just plain sucks. It doesn’t always turn out the way we want it to.

Nachtsider wrote:The 'technical crap' you could have approached one of us with, actually - we'd have been more than willing to help you out.

I said it before and I’ll say I again - I wrote the story for entertainment, not education.

There's no reason why good entertainment can't be informative. But still... poor Angie.

Nachtsider wrote: But still... poor Angie.

Hey, I didn’t kill her off did I? She went to a new family, were she thrived. She became successful, found the man of her dreams and with him, had a wonderful family of her own.

Rico would have survived the rejection - heck, I don't think she'd have bothered. Angie's another story altogether. Hell, you left her final fate ambiguous...

Nachtsider wrote:Hell, you left her final fate ambiguous...

OK, Here Angie’s official fate :

Danjo3 wrote:She went to a new family, were she thrived. She became successful, found the man of her dreams and with him, had a wonderful family of her own.

Sounds like damage control, you ask me. But oh, alright...

What do you mean damage control?

An attempt to quell the outrage caused by the initial material.

Nachtsider wrote:You're not dull-witted or anything like that, Miiko - quite on the contrary. While I don't really mind people just dropping in without warning (it takes a lot to creep me out), I certainly do appreciate the courtesy you show. And don't worry about putting me out of my way - I love contact with other Gunslinger Girl fans, and would not mind our continuing to correspond in the slightest.

Now, then... on to the comic proper.

A nice, brisk read, all in all - more due to my lack of comprehension of the text than anything else, to be true. I love the art style utilized in the strip - it's a subdued, muted style with willowy linework, very reminiscent of some traditional Chinese paintings. Seeing Henrietta go up against Claes was mighty interesting - I've always toyed with the idea of cyborgs going up against one another, and am presently working on a relevant fic or two. The 'Raballo' character looks so different... I'm really glad his design was changed for the final product. And while child porn of any kind puts me out, I'm afraid I must admit that the stuff in here is far tamer than some of the smut I've had the misfortune to see.

Thank you so very much for the gift, Miiko - I'm eagerly awaiting your feedback!

I liked the art style, too - acutally, it's the only thing that made me realize what this thing was, from the cover. I thought it was a ClaesxHenrietta doujinshi at first, until I recognized Aida-sensei's style and went "oh, this is official - it might be The One!" That first scene in the alleyway is really beautiful, in my opinion - even moreso than the detailed but hard backdrops in the official manga. It's very willowy, as you say, and while a little hard to see, it definitely gives the whole thing a certain elegant air.

As for your comment about 'Etta and Claes, that's who I thought the darkhaired girl was at first, too - but if you can read the dialogue, you'll see she's actually Petra, and her handler is Alessandro. I would cry big tears if Roballo was a jerk like this version of 'Sandro.

...I can't even imagine your misfortune. O.o This stuff alone had me practiacally whimpering under my chair. ;__; But I have to admit, it can always be worse - semi-noncon, for instance. >.<

You're very welcome, and sorry to have exposed you to the middle bits, but I find the rest of it definitely worthwhile. I'm glad you do, too. ^_^

Nachtsider wrote:An attempt to quell the outrage caused by the initial material.

You, like a lot of other people assumed the worst for Angie. I never even hinted at that. Actually, I was surprised that everyone didn’t see the possibility of her future the way I did.

Immersing yourself in the canon does that to one, my friend.

West Nile wrote:I had lolicon in my harddrive all this time?? *dashes for the doujinshi*

wait Etta and Guiseppe go rogue in this story?... darn i wanted to do that

That dash is of a dubious nature. O.o

I think it would have made a great end to the series (them going rogue), don't you? Only apparently a) he's already done a version of that and b) every fanfic author has probably tried it at least once. Never seems to work, though, probably because they'd end up like Bonnie and Clyde.

Out of curiosity, how would you play it if you did write the story?

The 'Bonnie and Clyde' scenario, in my opinion, can only end in tragic disaster. Danjo's path is, in my opinion, the best one of them all - although, admittedly, I wouldn't have thought of it. I tend to write stories that could take place anywhere in the canon without screwing with the timeline - most are set between Season One and Season Two.

Nachtsider wrote:Immersing yourself in the canon does that to one, my friend.

Had I known what canon held for Angie, my story would have been quite different.

Getting back on the original subject, is “GUNSLINGER GIRL: TATAKAU MONOTACHI” some of the dirty shit we have already seen, or is it something new? I’m kind of lost here.

You could get Miiko to send you the stuff and see for yourself, Danjo. I'm still so damn astonished that the dark-haired girl and her handler were actually Petra and Sandro...

So can someone upload this manga for those who haven´t read it yet?

I´m kinda reading in the dark here.

Thanatos wrote:So can someone upload this manga for those who haven´t read it yet?

I´m kinda reading in the dark here.

I'll upload it as soon as I get home from school, for anyone who's interested.

[EDIT: Apparently it took less time than I thought. Here it is. : )

With all the talk, I thought that this was going to be some really cool new art that was an insight into Yu, but it was the same porn that’s been around forever.

But I will admit, some of the Hillshire/Triela porn gave me a bit of inspiration…

Do I sense a new fic, Danjo?

I was referring to a story that already exists.

I also first thought that it was some sort of old version of Gunslinger Girl, but with a cover like this...



i found out what was going to happen next

...it's pretty hot in certain way i guess

West Nile wrote:I also first thought that it was some sort of old version of Gunslinger Girl, but with a cover like this...



i found out what was going to happen next

...it's pretty hot in certain way i guess

Lol, i have that one... caught it on a download, i believe i have it somewhere though... or maybe not... i did a clean up of my PC a few days back. i could have deleted it, but i am not sure.

Goodness gracious... is that Rico?

Nachtsider wrote:Goodness gracious... is that Rico?

It sure is.

Goodness gracious

Isn't that 'Anthony Daniels' his line when he played C-3PO

True, Tommy, but it's more of a British thing. An Englishman taught me the language - it's rubbed off.

Rico in chains - what the hell will they think of next?

Wait... I don't want to know.

well if you read the manga behind the cover... well it's just disgusting. make you wonder what the hell is running in Yu Aida's brain

Nachtsider wrote:True, Tommy, but it's more of a British thing. An Englishman taught me the language - it's rubbed off.

Figures

Nachtsider wrote:Rico in chains - what the hell will they think of next?

Wait... I don't want to know.

Its not as bad as you think, no chains involved in that H-doujin its self.
To me it has an underlying meaning. I mean, "Little girl, chained up like a dog." Its the same as "little girl, a slave to the SWA as assassin."

Tommygunner70 wrote:

Nachtsider wrote:Rico in chains - what the hell will they think of next?

Wait... I don't want to know.

Its not as bad as you think, no chains involved in that H-doujin its self.
To me it has an underlying meaning. I mean, "Little girl, chained up like a dog." Its the same as "little girl, a slave to the SWA as assassin."

i just thought that it meant that Yu Aida has BDSM tendencies

Poor Rico. T^T

I may not like what's in the manga but I love the cover. It's colors are amazing and I love how Rico is drawn. Aside from the chains I love it. ^_^

Okay, to clear the misunderstanding, that doujin up there IS NOT created by Yu Aida. It's...(how to say it, damn) made by people who think it's interesting to see Rico in that situation,and hopefully can make some profit from it... (something's not right.... I know it... can't be helped, then)

And abaut the first doujin, in the 1st post, yes, it was made by Yu Aida (and I can't read it since the link is dead....Poor me... T~T). About the sex scenes, well, this is the guy who made character for this game (and  this is the gallery, but it's 40%... involving young-looking character in inappropiate situation, so don't say I didn't warned you ), so it's kinda expected. And Aida himself, from what I heard, also admited that he become a little "distracted" (or something like that) when creating that doujin/prototype.

Adult Only?

I want to read dojin that have Rico in chain like that!!

:lol!:

Triela wrote:Aside from the chains I love it. ^_^

I agree, the artwork is nice. But as soon as I see the chains, and the "adults" only disclaimer it loses its charm. Gunslinger Girl just doesn't seem like a good setting for porn. The girl's stories are just heartwrenching. Making it porno is like kicking them when they're down no?

Perhaps I'm being a hypocrite (as in I don't mind fanservice), but definitely seeing Rico like that makes me sad. :crying:

But to please the masses, I will say I've always been a fan of leather buckles used as bracelets or armbands. Let's just lose the chains alright?