Ban on anime and manga being passed...

Time to stock up before it hits.

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/12/13/tokyo-anime-manga-ban-passes/

Shit....... Discuss.

That is so fucked up in so many words...

may be difficult to enforce,theres to much money involved !

It depresses me that this shit can still happen in the twenty-first century.

People, remember that Sankaku Complex is a tabloid site. There is cause for concern, but I'd be kind of surprised if the apocalyptic scenario they envision comes to pass.

You can read about what the bill actually contains here:
http://dankanemitsu.wordpress.com/2010/11/24/bill-156s-total-scope/
Basically, it says that anime and manga (but not live action - the part about this being an anti-otaku bill is true) can be declared harmful to minors and subject to recall in Tokyo (if not carrying an 18+ rating) if they glorify or emphasize/exaggerate (the translation is a bit iffy) illegal or incestuous sexual or pseudo sexual (not entirely sure here) acts. Also, one of the "supplementary resolutions" the committee added to the bill requires that the work's artistic, social, and satirical merit be taken into account.

There is some room for broad interpretation there, but bare in mind that Tokyo has been able to declare works "harmful to minors" for being "sexually stimulating" for quite a while, and... yeah, I haven't seen a lot of action there.

I think that the fact that it's tailored specifically towards anime, manga, and video games is pretty lame, but I have to say if it'll end the constant tide of super fanservice-y anime and the torrent of sexualized lolis I can't really complain.

That said, it does seem to tread a bit on free speech, but I'm not an expert on the subject.

Awinnell wrote:may be difficult to enforce,theres to much money involved !

I thought this too. I thought the anime/manga industry was one of the biggest financial areas Japan had aside from autos/electronics. Honestly, I don't think people have any reason to freak out considering how vague the bylaws appear to be. I think it'll be hard to enforce.

Yaoi manga ban... I'm gonna punch the people who passed that law in the face.

YOU WILL FEEL TRIELA'S WRATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >_____________<

STILL MAD!!!!!!!

The Youth Healthy Development Ordinance is already in effect (and has been for years) and it already prevents the sale and renting of "harmful publications" — materials that are "sexually stimulating, encourages cruelty, and/or may compel suicide or criminal behavior" to people under the age of 18.

And yet we have walls of doujin in Manga no Mori, almost every anime of the past two years has included at least one girl with "watermelon boobs" - and many anime make that their primary theme - and they're broadcasting Yosuga no Sora unedited on television.

Bill 156 requires the industry to regulate itself, much as US movie and video game studios do with their rating systems. The government can step in should a manga or show depict something like rape, but even there, series like The Rapeman are specifically restricted to 18 and over and therefore out of the focus of this new bill.

Alternately, they may still be written/produced in Japan, but marketed elsewhere? I smell loopholes...

An anti-otaku law?

Has nobody in the DJP thought of how negatively that will effect Japan's commerce economy?

I imagine if this does become enforceable much like Comics Code Authority of the 1950's; Akihabara may become a parallel of Downtown San Francisco.

It makes me wonder though if there is a profound publication that might be a catalyst for this such as Wertham's Seduction of the Innocent.

In protest I recommend a march of bikini clad Haruhi, Yuki, and Mikuru, and Yaoi(for you Triela) cosplayers. With Fuko(as Mikuru), Hitomi Tanaka(as Haruhi), and Chise Nakamura(as Yuki) leading the charge.

And then they carry a banner that says, "Thanks to the Ban you will NEVER SEE THIS AGAIN!!"

Kiskaloo wrote:
And yet we have walls of doujin in Manga no Mori, almost every anime of the past two years has included at least one girl with "watermelon boobs" - and many anime make that their primary theme - and they're broadcasting Yosuga no Sora unedited on television.

Yosuga no Sora actually is an anime I could see getting hit by the new regulations, seeing as it has both incest and female on male rape in it. Granted, I suppose you could argue that it should already have an 18+ rating.

Also, for what its worth, it only airs unedited on AT-X, which is a subscription channel.

What struck me was that they said Tantei Opera Milky Holmes could be "banned".

Are they watching the same anime I am?

Kiskaloo wrote:What struck me was that they said Tantei Opera Milky Holmes could be "banned".

Are they watching the same anime I am?

Does it glorify or emphasize incestuous or illegal sexual acts? Heck, does it depict incestuous or illegal sexual acts period?

I don't actually know the answer to that, but I suspect that the answer here is "Sankaku is a tabloid site".

I guess it could be the male teacher / gentleman thief who keeps taking his shirt off and massaging his nipples as he exclaims how great-looking he is, but that's more just over-the-top silly than titillating.

As for the four girls of Milky Holmes, they're just idiots.

This law, from my understanding, only effects Tokyo, right. So isn't the rest of Japan completely unaffected. Admittedly if this is enforced, could lead to the downfall of Akihabara, there's no reason why anime, manga, and eroge publishers, producers and events couldn't be relocated to other major cities such as Kyoto or Osaka.

boomer_gonz wrote:
In protest I recommend a march of bikini clad Haruhi, Yuki, and Mikuru, and Yaoi(for you Triela) cosplayers. With Fuko(as Mikuru), Hitomi Tanaka(as Haruhi), and Chise Nakamura(as Yuki) leading the charge.

And then they carry a banner that says, "Thanks to the Ban you will NEVER SEE THIS AGAIN!!"

OH FUCK YES!!! And Tanaka/Haruhi naturally start feeling up Fuko/Mikuru... and Chise/Yuki should join in... and then... they start randomly sexing up other cosplayers as well as any bystanders present.

This is going to be the hottest protest EVAR!

Bill 156 requires the industry to regulate itself, much as US movie and video game studios do with their rating systems.

And we see how this has gone over. The kids are still getting their mature-rated games because their parents buy the shit for them, entirely too self-absorbed to really look at what it contains. I work retail, I've seen it thousands of time, especially at Christmas when all granny has is a list of wants from the young-uns.
I enjoy violent anime and games. It's a form of entertainment. I also know that some of said content can be harmful in the long term to a child's development. I myself dealt with the consequences of a youthful imitation of something I saw in a movie, which resulted in several years of "therapy" for a problem I didn't actually have, and no one would explain to me in words I could understand.
I don't, however, support more government regulation of something that should be dealt with at home, by parents. If you don't want your teenage or younger kid watching/playing this stuff, then it's up to you, not the government, to enforce it, and make sure your child knows the difference between entertainment and real life.

First off: Okay, it seems to me perhaps some series will just get bumped up ratings. Now who ever cared about ratings?

Second off: I'm not sure if Tokyo will actually take the bill seriously even if passed. They might just go, "Great, we passed it, now let's not enforce it!"

Third off: Well, I'm not much of a manga or anime collector anyway.

Fourth: Well, in any case....INTERNETZ FTW. Although the internetz isn't immune to some things....

Fifth: (Drifts off into thought about the issue, sides of the argument, etc, while rubbing chin)

*Reads Spartan's post* ..........AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! Although that totally depends on natural human....pervertedness? That doesn't sound like the right word......

On the contrary. I'm tickled pink.

Well, this is annoying. What's gonna happen to my eroge?

Five_X wrote:Well, this is annoying. What's gonna happen to my eroge?

The "harmful to minors" classification is only applied to general audience works. 18+ works are exempt on the grounds that minors aren't supposed to have them anyway.

Honestly I'm kinda with Nacht and Rusty on this one... pretty non-plussed and it may well be difficult to police anyway. At least unless the Tokyo beaureaucrats decided to go full Library War/Farenheit 451 on it. Besides, as Rusty pointed out: it may see production companies needing to go back to selling on, oh I don't know, plot, story and character development again =P

I haven't had a chance to read the bill itself yet, but one thing that stuck out for me on the tabloid article was that it was a ban from "general sale". Not certain on what that means legally (anyone?) but would suggest to me that it means taking the material out of the mainstream and, to be fair... you don't exactly buy porn off the shelf and Woolworths now do you? My major concern would be the loss of revenue from TV screenings. However, my understanding was that most of the anime companies' revenue came from licensing products and merchandise anyway.

Even if it did cut into the Japanese economy, well... it wouldn't be the first time that a government has put national pride/the loud do-gooders in front of good economic management now would it?

Either way, as previously stated: kinda non-plussed. I will however second Boomer's motion for the scantily-clad-cosplayer-protest.

Alfisti wrote:
I haven't had a chance to read the bill itself yet, but one thing that stuck out for me on the tabloid article was that it was a ban from "general sale". Not certain on what that means legally (anyone?) but would suggest to me that it means taking the material out of the mainstream and, to be fair... you don't exactly buy porn off the shelf and Woolworths now do you? My major concern would be the loss of revenue from TV screenings. However, my understanding was that most of the anime companies' revenue came from licensing products and merchandise anyway.

I think the concern is whether things like Berserk would run afoul of the new regulations. Sure, it's something that kids shouldn't be reading, but a lot of the sales of monthly manga magazines (which are a fairly sizeable part of the market, from what I understand) are made at train station newstands and the like. Cutting access to those markets would be a big hit.

As for TV broadcasts, they're actually paid advertising, since in many cases the companies actually pay more for the timeslot than they earn in ad money. The real money comes from DVD/Bluray sales and merchandise.

It's worth noting that aside from being aired at like 1AM in most cases, anime TV broadcasts are already censored to a large extent... a lot of fansub watches make a big deal over the rampant sex and nudity in things like Yosuga no Sora, but the "uneditted" version most fansub watchers see is only aired on subscription channels in Japan. Regular channels would get a censored version, which would probably run afoul of the "glorifying or emphasizing incestuous acts" part of the new legislation.

boomer_gonz wrote:...Comics Code Authority of the 1950's... Wertham's Seduction of the Innocent...

It's worth remembering how much damage, commercially and artistically, was done to American comics by the above. However, manga and anime are bigger, and more respected, business in Japan. If all this does is keep objectionable material out of the hands of kids, that is probably a worthy goal. If, as Alfisti suggested, it causes an increased focus on quality storytelling, then everyone wins. We'll just have to wait and see.

It's not even final yet. It still needs to go a final vote today (Wednesday their time).

If this was America, you'd see corporate America buying their way out of deregulation. Kodansha and other publishers aren't playing the political game right.

Also, Sankaku has as much credibility as wrestling newz sites. They put quotes in the headline and the article in no way shape or form has nothing to do with it.

This had to be on someone's mind in the Diet/Legislative Bodies around Japan:

"All this ecchi shit is driving down porn sales to minors"
"We should ban the ecchi stuff!"
"Lets do it!"

Nuke is Good wrote:
"All this ecchi shit is driving down porn sales to minors"
"We should ban the ecchi stuff!"
"Lets do it!"

LOL

windfish55 wrote:

boomer_gonz wrote:...Comics Code Authority of the 1950's... Wertham's Seduction of the Innocent...

It's worth remembering how much damage, commercially and artistically, was done to American comics by the above. However, manga and anime are bigger, and more respected, business in Japan. If all this does is keep objectionable material out of the hands of kids, that is probably a worthy goal. If, as Alfisti suggested, it causes an increased focus on quality storytelling, then everyone wins. We'll just have to wait and see.

I wouldn't count on the bill causing much trouble for fanservice focused titles. The ordinance says nothing about gratuitous nudity or lolicon fanservice, just depictions of illegal or incestuous sex acts in anime, manga, and games (but not live action works), and even there its not clear how gratuitous the depiction needs to be. You could be restricting stuff that really should be 18+ to porn shops only... or you could be sending a message to seinen manga magazines that they shouldn't carry titles like Berserk because then they won't be allowed to sell the magazines at train stations (the commuter market is fairly large, from what I understand).

I also must admit I have my qualms about the bill due to the fact that it's often mentioned that shows like Yosuga no Sora will probably take a hit. Yes, Yosuga no Sora features too much sex and it gets in the way of the plot - but on the flip side, it's one of the few seinen romance-drama animes of the past year or two with a really good atmosphere. While there's a nice little group of shows that did something similar better without the sex back in 2007/2008, there really hasn't been many shows of this type since mid-2008, and I feel that Yosuga no Sora's ability to make a "sex sells" pitch is part of the reason it is one of the few shows of its type made recently. Of course, I guess you could still make a sexually explicit seinen romance-drama under the new regulations as long as it doesn't contain incest and female on male rape like YnS does.

Nuke is Good wrote:If this was America, you'd see corporate America buying their way out of deregulation. Kodansha and other publishers aren't playing the political game right.

To be fair though, America is an extreme of capitalism. Not every (infact not many to that extent) country's political process works that way. Moreover, I think you'll find that many anime production companies aren't quite that flush with cash. Add to that that the folks who do support the industry, and particuarly the part being targeted, are basically a fringe group anyway... yes they (and I say this in the context of Japanese culture, which doesn't seem to like to visibly rock the boat at the best of times) get vocal at times, but its mostly on the internet and on forums like this one rather then where it will politically count. There's certainly (as far as I know) no lobby group like, say, the NRA to scream loudly.

Alfisti wrote:

Nuke is Good wrote:If this was America, you'd see corporate America buying their way out of deregulation. Kodansha and other publishers aren't playing the political game right.

To be fair though, America is an extreme of capitalism. Not every (infact not many to that extent) country's political process works that way. Moreover, I think you'll find that many anime production companies aren't quite that flush with cash. Add to that that the folks who do support the industry, and particuarly the part being targeted, are basically a fringe group anyway... yes they (and I say this in the context of Japanese culture, which doesn't seem to like to visibly rock the boat at the best of times) get vocal at times, but its mostly on the internet and on forums like this one rather then where it will politically count. There's certainly (as far as I know) no lobby group like, say, the NRA to scream loudly.

The Japanese model of regulation is that the regulator consults with the affected industry and they come up with a compromise, from what I hear. That wasn't done here (the industry wasn't consulted period). It may well be politically damaging for those involved if they can't convince other industries that they won't do the same to a more respectable business.

Interesting, Governor Ishihara himself relies on what might be considered a "vocal minority" for his "base". Specifically, hard right Japanese nationalist, xenophobes, homophobes, and a few others. The fact he's governor of Tokyo is strange - I've heard people compare it to the idea of Glenn Beck being governor of New York.

0utf0xZer0 wrote:The Japanese model of regulation is that the regulator consults with the affected industry and they come up with a compromise, from what I hear. That wasn't done here (the industry wasn't consulted period). It may well be politically damaging for those involved if they can't convince other industries that they won't do the same to a more respectable business.

Interesting, Governor Ishihara himself relies on what might be considered a "vocal minority" for his "base". Specifically, hard right Japanese nationalist, xenophobes, homophobes, and a few others. The fact he's governor of Tokyo is strange - I've heard people compare it to the idea of Glenn Beck being governor of New York.

Again though, Japanese politics isn't exactly known for its fast-moving dynamic. They seem to have a tendency to stick with a known quantity rather than trying to find a better option. I mean, from memory the current DPJ national government represents the first time the LDP has been out of office in over half a century... and people had to be really pissed off in order for that to happen. So in that respect it doesn't overly suprise me that the current govenor has continued to hold his position.

In terms of political damage to the government in breaking the normal regulatory system... I think there's a balance to be struck there. First, the types of anime and manga that seem to be most targeted are still really on the fringe of the accepted social "norm". It's possible that's a reason why just anime and manga targeted rather than live action and so on as well. Moreover, my reading on Japanese culture is that, while there is quite a lot or rot underneath, on the surface at least it tends to portray a facade of polite conservatism: everything's nice, perfect, smooth and shiny.

For the record, I'm speculating now.

Hence, while the less socialy acceptable side of the anime/manga/doujin industry stayed buried, no-one really cared that much. However, with the rise of the internet and growing popularity of the medium in western nations, suddenly Japan, and particularly Tokyo have become as well known for this previously buried subculture as they are for cars, mountains and electronic widgets. That has to be rubbing at least a few karmas up the wrong way. Remember that anime in particular, doujin and the otaku are still very much looked down upon by the populace at large, and I doubt many outside of that otaku circle many Japanese would be happy being tarred internationally with that particular brush. Hell, I was most unhappy with Oprah's Australia visit and in particular a statement that "Australians like to meet up at hip joints called McCafes". Similar deal. I would not be suprised if this bill is a backlash against the growing prominence of the otaku subculture. Unfortunately I don't think its a decision that will be made without emotion playing a part as well as simple objective thinking.

That sort of brings me back to the statement that America (and to be honest the west in general) is probably too strongly capitalist in its political process to make a good comparrison against Japanese politics. The Japanese culture still seems to be quite tied to concepts such as honor, pride, image and so on. Simply put, the culture is much more personal... money isn't going to speak as loudly as it may in a western nation.

@Alfisti:

Interesting bit of analysis there, and I can see how it might explain the genesis of this bill. It would be highly ironic, though, since, well... to be blunt about it, the fact Ishihara has been relected doesn't really do wonders for Japan's image. Just read some of the statements in here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shintar%C5%8D_Ishihara

But hey, he's "respectable", LOL.

0utf0xZer0 wrote:But hey, he's "respectable", LOL.

It's amazing how much that can count for...

Eh, I tend to live on the hipster-fringe anyway... so I like a little irony in my life.

It got passed into law yesterday, while browsing 4chan here was a simple to read FAQ regarding the law that passed.

FAQ

Q: This is only sexual stuff, right?
A: No. It reads "anything that may hinder the healthy growth of youths by stirring sexual emotions, promoting cruel behaviour, or causing suicidal or criminal tendencies", which is a purposefully ambiguous blanket statement that can pretty much be applied to anything. Even Doraemon could be considered 18+ under this.

Q: Elaborate?
A: No criminal acts. That means no killing, no stealing, no carrying of weapons, no sharing of bicycles, no smoking/drinking for minors (in fact since it says "promoting" criminal behaviour, it could be argued that no smoking/drinking will be allowed at all). Basically anything with action could be considered promoting cruel/criminal behaviour. Meanwhile the "stirring sexual emotions" part will similarly affect anything with fanservice or romance. So basically, only stuff like Hidamari Sketch will remain.

Q: What will this affect?
A: All forms of fiction except novels and live action.

Q: How will it affect them?
A: In Tokyo, everything has to be classified by the industry under either all-ages (below 18) and 18+, and stores will have to make sure minors can't get 18+ stuff.

Q: So just slap an 18+ sticker and life goes on as usual, no big deal, right?
A: No. If they can't sell it to minors they won't bother making it in the first place.

Q: Only Tokyo, so move out, no big deal.
A: Tokyo is the economic centre of Japan, plus all of the big companies honsha are located in Tokyo (some have their own ridiculously expensive skyscrapers located in ridiculously expensive districts). The rest of the country will be affected. Plus if it's passed in Tokyo, other prefectures are very likely to follow suit, as always.


Seriously no sharing of bicycles? I know double riding is illegal there but give me a break. I wonder how Akibahara is going to be affected, the stores that sold eroge are going to have to accomodate almost every other anime now.

Nuke is Good wrote:It got passed into law yesterday, while browsing 4chan here was a simple to read FAQ regarding the law that passed.

FAQ

Q: This is only sexual stuff, right?
A: No. It reads "anything that may hinder the healthy growth of youths by stirring sexual emotions, promoting cruel behaviour, or causing suicidal or criminal tendencies", which is a purposefully ambiguous blanket statement that can pretty much be applied to anything. Even Doraemon could be considered 18+ under this.

The FAQ writer either doesn't understand the bill or is trolling.

Bill 156 is only about depiction of illegal and incestuous sexual acts. The ordinance it amends already covers all of the above and has for quite some time. You can judge the impact its had for yourself.

I feel that as long as Extreme Ghostbusters is never reborn, I can handle any change the world of animation goes through.

rusty-spring wrote:I feel that as long as Extreme Ghostbusters is never reborn, I can handle any change the world of animation goes through.

BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!!

You shut your mouth, rusty, Extreme Ghostbusters was fucking awesome.

I'm with them on this one. It may not be my proudest moment as a lover of animated media, but Extreme Ghostbuster's broke the monotony of many a morning before school. And for that, I must love it.

.......

Also Bobby's World.

0utf0xZer0 wrote:Bill 156 is only about depiction of illegal and incestuous sexual acts. The ordinance it amends already covers all of the above and has for quite some time. You can judge the impact its had for yourself.

Oh wow,it indeed is much ado about nothing then

Can't wait for the reaction on the animesuki thread when echi titles are announced this summer,or maybe people will have already forgotten about it.

theprodigalson wrote:Also Bobby's World.

Heck yeah, one of the biggest advocates of the big wheel tricycle. You weren't cool unless you had one. (Chicks dig handlebar streamers.)

Our new friend Ishihara is a at it again, now he's saying otaku have corrupt DNA.

Well if being an otaku and/or a pervert is genetic, exposure to ero manga should not be able to modify the behavior genetically non-otaku. So, why the ban?

OK, seriously though, first with his anti-ero anime/manga and then his anti-gay comments, one might get the impression that Ishihara is a Japanese version of an ultra-right wing group such as the USA's Tea Party and Westboro Baptist Church.

However, that might not quite be the case, considering some of the novels he has written, which, under the new laws, are still perfectly accessible to minors, though the manga adaptations have been censored (Warning, contains potentially NSFW and disturbing content. Modified from Sankaku complex)

Spoiler:

I don't know about you, but these seem as bad or perhaps even worse than the very worst of ero-manga and eroge out there. Hypocrisy much, Ishihara?

I guess it was just a matter of time somebody did something like that. The more popular the edgier comics become, the more likely someone would try to push more sex filled, violent comics until it gets out of hand and off the shelves.... Oh well...... 'kids today and their rock and roll'