Facts of the Day
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Re: Facts of the Day
December 10th: Alternative Titles
Yesterday's tidbit reminded me of an interesting pair of episode titles. As I mentioned for Pasta, several have an English/Italian as well as Japanese name (in Pasta's case, it is called "Fairy Tale" in JP). Episodes 10 and 11 are the same.
Episode 10, Amare ("To Love") is so named for its focus on why Elsa did what she did. Its Japanese title, however, is "Fever," highlighting the intensity as well as building into...
Episode 11, Febbre Alta ("High Fever") is when the tension that has been building in Henrietta finally breaks. However, in the background, the Japanese title is, "Tender Feelings." What Henrietta feels for Jose is not harsh or violent; it is unbelievably sweet.
These pairings are important and reflect what the series is trying to convey. It is true that Henrietta/Elsa have an extraordinarily intense love for their handlers, one that like a fever can be harmful as it grows, but so too is there something genuine as well. They aren't robots, and they aren't psychotic little yanderes who are a moment's notice away from murder-suicide.
Yesterday's tidbit reminded me of an interesting pair of episode titles. As I mentioned for Pasta, several have an English/Italian as well as Japanese name (in Pasta's case, it is called "Fairy Tale" in JP). Episodes 10 and 11 are the same.
Episode 10, Amare ("To Love") is so named for its focus on why Elsa did what she did. Its Japanese title, however, is "Fever," highlighting the intensity as well as building into...
Episode 11, Febbre Alta ("High Fever") is when the tension that has been building in Henrietta finally breaks. However, in the background, the Japanese title is, "Tender Feelings." What Henrietta feels for Jose is not harsh or violent; it is unbelievably sweet.
These pairings are important and reflect what the series is trying to convey. It is true that Henrietta/Elsa have an extraordinarily intense love for their handlers, one that like a fever can be harmful as it grows, but so too is there something genuine as well. They aren't robots, and they aren't psychotic little yanderes who are a moment's notice away from murder-suicide.
Neichus- Forum Posts : 88
Registration date : 2019-08-29
Re: Facts of the Day
December 11th: The Conditioning
After yesterday I had the thought to discuss Elsa, but realized that I couldn't do her justice until another subject had been broached first. As TSM had already brought this up a few days ago, I figure it's two birds with one stone.
The manga and anime have a different idea of what the conditioning actually does. The manga treats it as standard brainwashing, that it exists outside the girls and that it forces them to do things whether they want to or not.
The anime is crucially differently. The conditioning is part of the girls. It's more like an instinct, that like ducklings the conditioning caused them to bond to their handlers. Really, even that comparison is a bad one; it's more like children to their parents. Just as we don't choose whether or not to bond to our parents, so do the girls not choose whether they bond to their handlers.
But it's real.
That's the difference. The conditioning is viewed as artificial in the manga, always is. The question that torments characters is whether their feelings are "real." That isn't the conundrum of the anime. Rather it is a reflection on humanity, a question of what constitutes "real" feelings at all by exposing that what these girls experience is not fundamentally different.
The pictures I've been linking are one of the better demonstration of this. You can see in the manga that Rico doesn't want to die but the conditioning is flushing her with forced adoration. And when Jean says she should she agrees with a brainwashed-happy smile.
In the anime Rico's smile has a different tone. She's an abused child, one who is bonded to her "parent," and cannot simply decide to not care about him. Her response is one of despair here, knowing that what Jean says is not true... but that she cannot defy him anyway.
After yesterday I had the thought to discuss Elsa, but realized that I couldn't do her justice until another subject had been broached first. As TSM had already brought this up a few days ago, I figure it's two birds with one stone.
The manga and anime have a different idea of what the conditioning actually does. The manga treats it as standard brainwashing, that it exists outside the girls and that it forces them to do things whether they want to or not.
The anime is crucially differently. The conditioning is part of the girls. It's more like an instinct, that like ducklings the conditioning caused them to bond to their handlers. Really, even that comparison is a bad one; it's more like children to their parents. Just as we don't choose whether or not to bond to our parents, so do the girls not choose whether they bond to their handlers.
But it's real.
That's the difference. The conditioning is viewed as artificial in the manga, always is. The question that torments characters is whether their feelings are "real." That isn't the conundrum of the anime. Rather it is a reflection on humanity, a question of what constitutes "real" feelings at all by exposing that what these girls experience is not fundamentally different.
The pictures I've been linking are one of the better demonstration of this. You can see in the manga that Rico doesn't want to die but the conditioning is flushing her with forced adoration. And when Jean says she should she agrees with a brainwashed-happy smile.
In the anime Rico's smile has a different tone. She's an abused child, one who is bonded to her "parent," and cannot simply decide to not care about him. Her response is one of despair here, knowing that what Jean says is not true... but that she cannot defy him anyway.
Neichus- Forum Posts : 88
Registration date : 2019-08-29
Re: Facts of the Day
December 12th: Elsa, part 1
Elsa is Henrietta. Not literally, of course, but the essence of Elsa's story is that these two girls are the same personality, separated only by chance and circumstance, and that by understanding one you understand the other.
They are both introduced through combat, which in their choices reveals their attitudes. They do not simply carry out missions. They assault with fury, charging into danger without a thought of their own safety.
This recklessness is not just the conditioning. Again, I must emphasize this: in the anime the conditioning creates a bond, a desire to be loved and appreciated, and so a willingness to serve. While all the girls will die for their handlers, it is only Henrietta and Elsa who are so eager to prove themselves (except, note, Angelica in Simbiosi when she believes it is her last chance).
"I just wanted to help you."
As for why they are so eager, nay desperate, that is for tomorrow.
Elsa is Henrietta. Not literally, of course, but the essence of Elsa's story is that these two girls are the same personality, separated only by chance and circumstance, and that by understanding one you understand the other.
They are both introduced through combat, which in their choices reveals their attitudes. They do not simply carry out missions. They assault with fury, charging into danger without a thought of their own safety.
This recklessness is not just the conditioning. Again, I must emphasize this: in the anime the conditioning creates a bond, a desire to be loved and appreciated, and so a willingness to serve. While all the girls will die for their handlers, it is only Henrietta and Elsa who are so eager to prove themselves (except, note, Angelica in Simbiosi when she believes it is her last chance).
"I just wanted to help you."
As for why they are so eager, nay desperate, that is for tomorrow.
Neichus- Forum Posts : 88
Registration date : 2019-08-29
Re: Facts of the Day
December 13th: Elsa p2
No child who knows she is cared for would ever say such a line as the one above. Underscored in the anime is the conundrum of Jose: that despite his conspicuous care there is something missing. At first Henrietta didn't notice:
"Just having him with me is enough."
But by the latter part of the series, around Elsa's arc, this has eroded:
Henrietta keeps saying the same words, but they don't feel right anymore. This is the origin of her growing desperation. She is a deeply earnest girl who is willing to serve with everything in her. She wants to do right, to be right, for her handler, doing everything he asks (such as be a "normal" little girl). Yet, in crucial moments, when she most needs his care it is missing:
Which brings us to Elsa. If Jose has failed to reliably support Henrietta, Lauro has never shown Elsa a single ounce of love. All she got from him is her name. Paradoxically, her response is not to stop caring; she is bonded to him, she loves him, and like Henrietta desires deeply to serve. So she has gone the opposite direction:
In her mind, it isn't Lauro's fault that she isn't shown care. She's confident he cares for her. It's just that she's not good enough. She needs to try harder, she needs to give more up, she needs to give everything. Deny herself and live in a cold, empty room. Sever all social ties to think only about Lauro. She is a sad, lonely fanatic:
This is the reality brought home by Elsa. Both of these girls are missing what it is like to simply be appreciated for who they are, believing they must "earn" the right to be loved. So they dream of a future when they are enough, living with a hidden fear that they will be found insufficient.
No child who knows she is cared for would ever say such a line as the one above. Underscored in the anime is the conundrum of Jose: that despite his conspicuous care there is something missing. At first Henrietta didn't notice:
"Just having him with me is enough."
But by the latter part of the series, around Elsa's arc, this has eroded:
Henrietta keeps saying the same words, but they don't feel right anymore. This is the origin of her growing desperation. She is a deeply earnest girl who is willing to serve with everything in her. She wants to do right, to be right, for her handler, doing everything he asks (such as be a "normal" little girl). Yet, in crucial moments, when she most needs his care it is missing:
Which brings us to Elsa. If Jose has failed to reliably support Henrietta, Lauro has never shown Elsa a single ounce of love. All she got from him is her name. Paradoxically, her response is not to stop caring; she is bonded to him, she loves him, and like Henrietta desires deeply to serve. So she has gone the opposite direction:
In her mind, it isn't Lauro's fault that she isn't shown care. She's confident he cares for her. It's just that she's not good enough. She needs to try harder, she needs to give more up, she needs to give everything. Deny herself and live in a cold, empty room. Sever all social ties to think only about Lauro. She is a sad, lonely fanatic:
This is the reality brought home by Elsa. Both of these girls are missing what it is like to simply be appreciated for who they are, believing they must "earn" the right to be loved. So they dream of a future when they are enough, living with a hidden fear that they will be found insufficient.
Neichus- Forum Posts : 88
Registration date : 2019-08-29
Re: Facts of the Day
To a lesser degree, I think the same can be said of Triela: "Jose wants a little sister. Jean wants a tool. What does he want me to be?"
The events in Taormina take on a new significance in the light of your analysis. It can't be denied that Jose paid her a lot of attention when she had a gun to her eye. And afterward, she seemed to exhibit a feeling of pleasure and release that was almost post-coital.
The events in Taormina take on a new significance in the light of your analysis. It can't be denied that Jose paid her a lot of attention when she had a gun to her eye. And afterward, she seemed to exhibit a feeling of pleasure and release that was almost post-coital.
Thescarredman- Forum Posts : 2226
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Re: Facts of the Day
December 14th: Elsa part 3
Triela: "It all depends on the person who's in charge of you and the conditioning..."
Henrietta: "The person in charge...?"
Lycoris is an episode of realizations for both Henrietta and Elsa. For Henrietta, it is when things begin to slip, starting with her conversation with Triela. Notice the differing translations above; it is because the word used for handler/trainer in Japanese literally means "one who is in charge." What has happened here, and what doesn't translate well into English, is that for the first time Henrietta is actually thinking about what Jose's title means. He's not "the one who cares for her" but the one who is assigned to control her. It shocks her so much she can't face it, and she retreats to drinking tea, as she always does when she is distressed:
This is also why later on, when she is talking with Elsa, she stammers:
It's not that Henrietta has stopped loving Jose, but that doubt has entered her mind. If all these people are just here to use her, like she knows from last episode in Bianchi's office, why is Jose here?
Elsa's realization, however, is... devastating. I repeat myself from yesterday, but it must be understood: Elsa willingly sacrificed for Lauro because she loved him (as Henrietta does for Jose). Everything she did, she did for him as a sign of her devotion, believing that he understood what her actions meant. He just found her wanting. Yet as she stares into the rearview mirror on the way to Siena, she sees Henrietta smiling and talking to Jose:
Her car is silent, though. Maybe Lauro just needs some prompting. So she sends her signal again:
"I'm here Lauro, I'm doing my best for you just like you want me to. I'm a good girl, ri..."
She is shocked... and can't understand. She's letting him know she's here for him, ready and willing. Why isn't he reciprocating? What is it that she is doing wrong?
It is in this state that Elsa reaches Siena, and one of the most tragic scenes of the series ensues.
(TSM: Triela's relationship deserves a post all its own, but I essentially agree with you. As for Henrietta's actions, I don't believe they mean that to her. That's something that we'll get to in the next few days, though.)
Triela: "It all depends on the person who's in charge of you and the conditioning..."
Henrietta: "The person in charge...?"
Lycoris is an episode of realizations for both Henrietta and Elsa. For Henrietta, it is when things begin to slip, starting with her conversation with Triela. Notice the differing translations above; it is because the word used for handler/trainer in Japanese literally means "one who is in charge." What has happened here, and what doesn't translate well into English, is that for the first time Henrietta is actually thinking about what Jose's title means. He's not "the one who cares for her" but the one who is assigned to control her. It shocks her so much she can't face it, and she retreats to drinking tea, as she always does when she is distressed:
This is also why later on, when she is talking with Elsa, she stammers:
It's not that Henrietta has stopped loving Jose, but that doubt has entered her mind. If all these people are just here to use her, like she knows from last episode in Bianchi's office, why is Jose here?
Elsa's realization, however, is... devastating. I repeat myself from yesterday, but it must be understood: Elsa willingly sacrificed for Lauro because she loved him (as Henrietta does for Jose). Everything she did, she did for him as a sign of her devotion, believing that he understood what her actions meant. He just found her wanting. Yet as she stares into the rearview mirror on the way to Siena, she sees Henrietta smiling and talking to Jose:
Her car is silent, though. Maybe Lauro just needs some prompting. So she sends her signal again:
"I'm here Lauro, I'm doing my best for you just like you want me to. I'm a good girl, ri..."
She is shocked... and can't understand. She's letting him know she's here for him, ready and willing. Why isn't he reciprocating? What is it that she is doing wrong?
It is in this state that Elsa reaches Siena, and one of the most tragic scenes of the series ensues.
(TSM: Triela's relationship deserves a post all its own, but I essentially agree with you. As for Henrietta's actions, I don't believe they mean that to her. That's something that we'll get to in the next few days, though.)
Neichus- Forum Posts : 88
Registration date : 2019-08-29
Re: Facts of the Day
December 15th: Elsa Part 4
Jose: "Lauro. How is Elsa today?"
Lauro: "Huh? What do you mean by, 'How is she'?"
Jose: "Nothing. She just seems a little eager. They often miss when they're like that."
(Lauro laughs at this last statement)
Lauro: "Elsa has never failed before. Isn't that what the conditioning is for?"
That Lauro didn't care about Elsa was already evident, but here on the roof his attitude is made explicit: he doesn't even consider her human. She's a piece of high-grade machinery that makes his job easier. It's like Jose asked, "How is the sniper rifle today?" He laughs at such misplaced anthropomorphism.
As for Elsa, she has feverishly redoubled her efforts. She even brings in a Hecate sniper rifle, which at this range and target is overkill. This is the state she is in, trying her absolute best, going overboard, to let Lauro know what a good, devoted girl she is. She needs him to know this.
Then, she is removed, and she has no explanation.
Of course she made a mistake, but that's not the point. Up until this she had been able to figure out some excuse for Lauro's behavior. Maybe he just didn't happen to notice earlier in the car. Maybe she needed to try harder. Maybe it was for her own good. Maybe... maybe... maybe... but there's no maybe here. Her record is flawless, yet with the slightest blip she is exchanged like a malfunctioning piece of equipment. She would die for him without hesitation but for him to have no hesitation in casting her aside...
...the only way he could do this, the only way Lauro could either so ignore her sacrifices or fail to reciprocate them...
...is if he doesn't love her.
Jose: "Lauro. How is Elsa today?"
Lauro: "Huh? What do you mean by, 'How is she'?"
Jose: "Nothing. She just seems a little eager. They often miss when they're like that."
(Lauro laughs at this last statement)
Lauro: "Elsa has never failed before. Isn't that what the conditioning is for?"
That Lauro didn't care about Elsa was already evident, but here on the roof his attitude is made explicit: he doesn't even consider her human. She's a piece of high-grade machinery that makes his job easier. It's like Jose asked, "How is the sniper rifle today?" He laughs at such misplaced anthropomorphism.
As for Elsa, she has feverishly redoubled her efforts. She even brings in a Hecate sniper rifle, which at this range and target is overkill. This is the state she is in, trying her absolute best, going overboard, to let Lauro know what a good, devoted girl she is. She needs him to know this.
Then, she is removed, and she has no explanation.
Of course she made a mistake, but that's not the point. Up until this she had been able to figure out some excuse for Lauro's behavior. Maybe he just didn't happen to notice earlier in the car. Maybe she needed to try harder. Maybe it was for her own good. Maybe... maybe... maybe... but there's no maybe here. Her record is flawless, yet with the slightest blip she is exchanged like a malfunctioning piece of equipment. She would die for him without hesitation but for him to have no hesitation in casting her aside...
...the only way he could do this, the only way Lauro could either so ignore her sacrifices or fail to reciprocate them...
...is if he doesn't love her.
Neichus- Forum Posts : 88
Registration date : 2019-08-29
Re: Facts of the Day
Dunno. Lauro chastised her first for losing focus, then for an incredibly inept lapse (leaving your safety on as you're about to take a shot, then having to look for it on a weapon you've handled God knows how many times). Surely Elsa wouldn't regard those as small mistakes.
Thescarredman- Forum Posts : 2226
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Re: Facts of the Day
December 17th: Elsa Part 5
We all know what happened after this. However, the question remains: why would Elsa kill her handler and then herself?
In the manga the answer is that the cyborgs are psychologically unstable. They're innocent children but the conditioning has forced them to love and serve and kill against their will. They're two opposite things shoved into one and Henrietta breaks down because her unnaturalness. She edges into psychotic yandere territory, threatening violence to herself and Jose as the whole package of programming and lovelorn girl malfunctions. That is the lesson of Elsa.
The anime takes a different route. As I've stressed, the conditioning is part of who they are as much as anybody's preferences or instincts are part of them. They aren't experienced as compulsions from the outside but desires from within. They love their handlers and it isn't fake.
What has destroyed Henrietta and Elsa is that they are uniquely devoted girls by nature, doing everything their handlers have asked and more... and yet they are not loved back. They have tried everything. Elsa in her service and sacrifice, Henrietta in trying to be a normal little girl like Jose wants. When Henrietta breaks down in Febbre Alta it is not confusion over her two halves, it's that Jose has demanded the impossible for the price of his love. It is the horrible, horrible dawning realization that Elsa had crushingly thrust upon her in Siena: that her handler might never love her.
So this leads to the question: what can they do if the normal methods are not working?
We all know what happened after this. However, the question remains: why would Elsa kill her handler and then herself?
In the manga the answer is that the cyborgs are psychologically unstable. They're innocent children but the conditioning has forced them to love and serve and kill against their will. They're two opposite things shoved into one and Henrietta breaks down because her unnaturalness. She edges into psychotic yandere territory, threatening violence to herself and Jose as the whole package of programming and lovelorn girl malfunctions. That is the lesson of Elsa.
The anime takes a different route. As I've stressed, the conditioning is part of who they are as much as anybody's preferences or instincts are part of them. They aren't experienced as compulsions from the outside but desires from within. They love their handlers and it isn't fake.
What has destroyed Henrietta and Elsa is that they are uniquely devoted girls by nature, doing everything their handlers have asked and more... and yet they are not loved back. They have tried everything. Elsa in her service and sacrifice, Henrietta in trying to be a normal little girl like Jose wants. When Henrietta breaks down in Febbre Alta it is not confusion over her two halves, it's that Jose has demanded the impossible for the price of his love. It is the horrible, horrible dawning realization that Elsa had crushingly thrust upon her in Siena: that her handler might never love her.
So this leads to the question: what can they do if the normal methods are not working?
Neichus- Forum Posts : 88
Registration date : 2019-08-29
Re: Facts of the Day
December 18th: Elsa Part 6
The first girl to examine is Henrietta. The essence of her conundrum is this that Jose appears to treat her nicely, buying her things, taking her places, etc. Yet...
He looks at her like this for just a moment when he catches her staring at him, before covering it with a smile. It always happened:
That moment when she first starts talking it's like he remembers he must put on a smile, act like he enjoys being with her. And it seems like when they talk all he wants to do is get away from her:
She has never seen a genuine glance of affection from him, like the ones she saw Pietro shoot Elenora:
And when she asks questions, he lies to her. He told her she had to give her guns up because they were under cover. But when Pietro and Elenora show up, he tells them they need to relinquish their firearms due to the oil smell. It shocks Henrietta, because she realizes: somebody is being lied to and it might be her.
Note how all of these scenes/frames above are anime-original; they're the small details the series added in to change the course of their relationship. Jose's psychology is more convoluted than can be covered here (he doesn't hate Henrietta), but the impact on Henrietta has been that of a girl in a one-sided relationship (and after seeing Pietro and Elenora up close she knows what a partnership should look like). The guy keeps doing the bare minimum and it's not fulfilling her emotional needs, a dynamic enhanced by her utter dependency on him for her purpose in life. Yet she still must believe he cares for her, just for some reason he's not expressing it. And after trying everything, his hand needs to be forced:
Does her Jose care for her enough to stop this from happening? She has sent all the signals she can, and this is what is left; something he cannot pretend he didn't notice or fail to appreciate the gravity. "Your love is more important than my life."
I think it's important to comment here that I do not believe Pietro is right in the anime when he says it was emotional blackmail (he's shown to systematically misunderstand the signals the girls around him send in the anime; another Fact for another day...). The lines are moved around compared to the manga, where as soon as he brings up Henrietta was threatening Elenora replies, "But she was so innocent..." (and her "frightening girl" comment is erased). It's disagreement. Henrietta needs to be genuinely loved, and she believes that if she can just show Jose how important he and his love are to her, he will care for her back.
So in sum, this was Henrietta's answer. She's not psychotic or malfunctioning. Jose had shown her just enough care for her to believe that this ploy would work, that he would change and come for her if she showed him her dire need. And now we turn to Elsa, the same entirely sane girl, and what happens when that hope does not exist.
The first girl to examine is Henrietta. The essence of her conundrum is this that Jose appears to treat her nicely, buying her things, taking her places, etc. Yet...
He looks at her like this for just a moment when he catches her staring at him, before covering it with a smile. It always happened:
That moment when she first starts talking it's like he remembers he must put on a smile, act like he enjoys being with her. And it seems like when they talk all he wants to do is get away from her:
She has never seen a genuine glance of affection from him, like the ones she saw Pietro shoot Elenora:
And when she asks questions, he lies to her. He told her she had to give her guns up because they were under cover. But when Pietro and Elenora show up, he tells them they need to relinquish their firearms due to the oil smell. It shocks Henrietta, because she realizes: somebody is being lied to and it might be her.
Note how all of these scenes/frames above are anime-original; they're the small details the series added in to change the course of their relationship. Jose's psychology is more convoluted than can be covered here (he doesn't hate Henrietta), but the impact on Henrietta has been that of a girl in a one-sided relationship (and after seeing Pietro and Elenora up close she knows what a partnership should look like). The guy keeps doing the bare minimum and it's not fulfilling her emotional needs, a dynamic enhanced by her utter dependency on him for her purpose in life. Yet she still must believe he cares for her, just for some reason he's not expressing it. And after trying everything, his hand needs to be forced:
Does her Jose care for her enough to stop this from happening? She has sent all the signals she can, and this is what is left; something he cannot pretend he didn't notice or fail to appreciate the gravity. "Your love is more important than my life."
I think it's important to comment here that I do not believe Pietro is right in the anime when he says it was emotional blackmail (he's shown to systematically misunderstand the signals the girls around him send in the anime; another Fact for another day...). The lines are moved around compared to the manga, where as soon as he brings up Henrietta was threatening Elenora replies, "But she was so innocent..." (and her "frightening girl" comment is erased). It's disagreement. Henrietta needs to be genuinely loved, and she believes that if she can just show Jose how important he and his love are to her, he will care for her back.
So in sum, this was Henrietta's answer. She's not psychotic or malfunctioning. Jose had shown her just enough care for her to believe that this ploy would work, that he would change and come for her if she showed him her dire need. And now we turn to Elsa, the same entirely sane girl, and what happens when that hope does not exist.
Neichus-
Forum Posts : 88
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Fan of : Little Gidding, The Basilica of Sant' Andrea, and Tetramorium immigrans
Original Characters : A
Comments : "It was not impossible, for she was the sky."
Registration date : 2019-08-29
Re: Facts of the Day
December 19th: Elsa Part 7
What would Henrietta do if Jose had no hope of changing? If he had never given her any signs of care, if he had consistently ignored her efforts, and then had shattered her dreams by showing that her feelings had never mattered to him in the first place?
She would still love him.
But... how to let him know this? It is clear now that Lauro accords Elsa nothing. She's just a programmed doll in his mind. Even Henrietta's drastic approach would just be written off. Elsa's answer is revealed in Henrietta's dream, and so what lies at the heart of both of these girls:
Lauro: "So what do you want out here?"
Elsa: "Lauro, do you remember this park?"
(Lauro turns with a "Huh?")
Elsa: "You named me here. 'Elsa de Sica.'"
It's Elsa, trying to signal him one last time. Can't he see that he named her, he brought her to life, and that everything is for him? Maybe he will unders...
Lauro: "Really? How can you remember such things."
He doesn't and never will. There is a look on her face as he brushes her aside...
Just... just once he could have appreciated her. Now she only has one choice. It isn't a threat; these girls don't threaten for love. Rather it is her final signal, one that Lauro will find as unignorable as Jose found Henrietta's. If Elsa's only a robot then there is one thing that should be impossible. One thing that she should not be able to do because it is in defiance of all of her programming.
She should not be able to kill him.
I find her actions one of the most sublime statements of the series. In a paradoxical expression of supreme love she killed its very object, proving the reality of her feelings and existence. To do so was more important than her own life, and in that moment she expressed a deep humanity that defied it be viewed as anything less.
Bringing him here, then, she was memorializing the one thing Lauro ever truly gave her. This is where she began and this is where she will end, returning to him the most important gift she has to offer: her love as a genuine human being.
Her dream ends with darkness and a gunshot.
What would Henrietta do if Jose had no hope of changing? If he had never given her any signs of care, if he had consistently ignored her efforts, and then had shattered her dreams by showing that her feelings had never mattered to him in the first place?
She would still love him.
But... how to let him know this? It is clear now that Lauro accords Elsa nothing. She's just a programmed doll in his mind. Even Henrietta's drastic approach would just be written off. Elsa's answer is revealed in Henrietta's dream, and so what lies at the heart of both of these girls:
Lauro: "So what do you want out here?"
Elsa: "Lauro, do you remember this park?"
(Lauro turns with a "Huh?")
Elsa: "You named me here. 'Elsa de Sica.'"
It's Elsa, trying to signal him one last time. Can't he see that he named her, he brought her to life, and that everything is for him? Maybe he will unders...
Lauro: "Really? How can you remember such things."
He doesn't and never will. There is a look on her face as he brushes her aside...
Just... just once he could have appreciated her. Now she only has one choice. It isn't a threat; these girls don't threaten for love. Rather it is her final signal, one that Lauro will find as unignorable as Jose found Henrietta's. If Elsa's only a robot then there is one thing that should be impossible. One thing that she should not be able to do because it is in defiance of all of her programming.
She should not be able to kill him.
I find her actions one of the most sublime statements of the series. In a paradoxical expression of supreme love she killed its very object, proving the reality of her feelings and existence. To do so was more important than her own life, and in that moment she expressed a deep humanity that defied it be viewed as anything less.
Bringing him here, then, she was memorializing the one thing Lauro ever truly gave her. This is where she began and this is where she will end, returning to him the most important gift she has to offer: her love as a genuine human being.
Her dream ends with darkness and a gunshot.
Neichus-
Forum Posts : 88
Location : US
Fan of : Little Gidding, The Basilica of Sant' Andrea, and Tetramorium immigrans
Original Characters : A
Comments : "It was not impossible, for she was the sky."
Registration date : 2019-08-29
Re: Facts of the Day
December 20th: Elsa Afterword
There is a scene in episode 9 where Elsa, sitting alone in her room, hears a knock. She stands up and asks who it is; she has such a soft whisper of a voice, so at odds with the harshness of her front. In her eyes is an expectation, a desperate hope in a tender heart, that maybe Lauro has come at last to rescue her from her solitude.
This is the moment that encapsulates Elsa for me. She was not a likable girl; even Triela, benevolent though she is, found her irritating. However, that is the point. Elsa was a fanatic, the twin to Henrietta's devout searching, and the two often do not recognize each other when they meet. When Elsa is pushed aside, Henrietta shoots her a petulant glare:
"You deserve this," it says, "you hurt me and made me angry so you should suffer." But earlier there was another thought:
"There but for the grace of God, go I." The tragedy of Elsa's life lay in her genuineness, her faults so regrettable because they might have been virtues. She was devoted, without guile, and possessed by an intensity that few can match. Sadly, under Lauro's apathy these degenerated into lesser forms of clingy exclusiveness, brusqueness, and harmful self-abandonment as she gave up everything in a bid to be good enough for him. As they evacuate, then, Henrietta turns to see Elsa is still standing motionless, broken, and she begins to understand Triela's lesson:
Elsa was a person like her and nobody deserves this.
I have struggled to find a proper end here, for I do not believe it should conclude with pity. Elsa was tragic, but not pathetic. Familiarity with her humanness inoculates against that. Nonetheless, I like to imagine there's a place where Elsa can find peace and no longer has to be alone.
There is a scene in episode 9 where Elsa, sitting alone in her room, hears a knock. She stands up and asks who it is; she has such a soft whisper of a voice, so at odds with the harshness of her front. In her eyes is an expectation, a desperate hope in a tender heart, that maybe Lauro has come at last to rescue her from her solitude.
This is the moment that encapsulates Elsa for me. She was not a likable girl; even Triela, benevolent though she is, found her irritating. However, that is the point. Elsa was a fanatic, the twin to Henrietta's devout searching, and the two often do not recognize each other when they meet. When Elsa is pushed aside, Henrietta shoots her a petulant glare:
"You deserve this," it says, "you hurt me and made me angry so you should suffer." But earlier there was another thought:
"There but for the grace of God, go I." The tragedy of Elsa's life lay in her genuineness, her faults so regrettable because they might have been virtues. She was devoted, without guile, and possessed by an intensity that few can match. Sadly, under Lauro's apathy these degenerated into lesser forms of clingy exclusiveness, brusqueness, and harmful self-abandonment as she gave up everything in a bid to be good enough for him. As they evacuate, then, Henrietta turns to see Elsa is still standing motionless, broken, and she begins to understand Triela's lesson:
Elsa was a person like her and nobody deserves this.
I have struggled to find a proper end here, for I do not believe it should conclude with pity. Elsa was tragic, but not pathetic. Familiarity with her humanness inoculates against that. Nonetheless, I like to imagine there's a place where Elsa can find peace and no longer has to be alone.
Neichus-
Forum Posts : 88
Location : US
Fan of : Little Gidding, The Basilica of Sant' Andrea, and Tetramorium immigrans
Original Characters : A
Comments : "It was not impossible, for she was the sky."
Registration date : 2019-08-29
Re: Facts of the Day
December 21st: Elsa's Fanaticism
While covering Elsa, there were a few scenes I didn't get to remark on in detail since they didn't quite fit the narrative I was crafting. One is her exchange with Henrietta, which is worth a closer look.
As I've mentioned a few times, Elsa is a fanatic, and her logic is surprisingly cogent. Their talk begins with the above threat, followed by this monologue:
"Who is more important to you? Your handler or the other cyborgs?"
(Voice grows faint with fondness)
"Lauro is the most important to me. Nothing else matters. I'm going to use all of my time for Lauro's sake. I think about Lauro as I polish his rifle for him... "
(A long pause while Henrietta stares at her unhappily)
"...despite not knowing how long we have to live! None of you have love!" (Crescendo of anger)
It is the mindset in a nutshell. If a handler, a god, a belief is the most important thing in the world then it follows logically that everything else is less so. She has her eye on the prize and anybody who forgets for even a second in their short lives what is most important is clearly just lacking in devotion.
Similarly, the best way to show such single-minded devotion is to shun everything else. Elsa isn't unkind because she's an irritable person (or, at least no more irritable than Henrietta); she's unkind to demonstrate that she believes Lauro is greater than anything else. So much greater nothing else is worth her consideration. Being connected to other people would merely divert her care to unimportant matters.
And as her cold, bare room evidences: she is no hypocrite. She shuns herself too. She is less important than Lauro and so not worth taking care of either, except as his tool. Everything else extraneous can go.
What this leaves me with is a question: given the remarkable verisimilitude of her attitudes to real religious fanaticism, does that mean that it too has roots in a sense of uncertain attachment? Are such views always shadowed by a tenuous self-image and so overreliance on an imagined bond and the identity it gives? Food for thought.
While covering Elsa, there were a few scenes I didn't get to remark on in detail since they didn't quite fit the narrative I was crafting. One is her exchange with Henrietta, which is worth a closer look.
As I've mentioned a few times, Elsa is a fanatic, and her logic is surprisingly cogent. Their talk begins with the above threat, followed by this monologue:
"Who is more important to you? Your handler or the other cyborgs?"
(Voice grows faint with fondness)
"Lauro is the most important to me. Nothing else matters. I'm going to use all of my time for Lauro's sake. I think about Lauro as I polish his rifle for him... "
(A long pause while Henrietta stares at her unhappily)
"...despite not knowing how long we have to live! None of you have love!" (Crescendo of anger)
It is the mindset in a nutshell. If a handler, a god, a belief is the most important thing in the world then it follows logically that everything else is less so. She has her eye on the prize and anybody who forgets for even a second in their short lives what is most important is clearly just lacking in devotion.
Similarly, the best way to show such single-minded devotion is to shun everything else. Elsa isn't unkind because she's an irritable person (or, at least no more irritable than Henrietta); she's unkind to demonstrate that she believes Lauro is greater than anything else. So much greater nothing else is worth her consideration. Being connected to other people would merely divert her care to unimportant matters.
And as her cold, bare room evidences: she is no hypocrite. She shuns herself too. She is less important than Lauro and so not worth taking care of either, except as his tool. Everything else extraneous can go.
What this leaves me with is a question: given the remarkable verisimilitude of her attitudes to real religious fanaticism, does that mean that it too has roots in a sense of uncertain attachment? Are such views always shadowed by a tenuous self-image and so overreliance on an imagined bond and the identity it gives? Food for thought.
Neichus-
Forum Posts : 88
Location : US
Fan of : Little Gidding, The Basilica of Sant' Andrea, and Tetramorium immigrans
Original Characters : A
Comments : "It was not impossible, for she was the sky."
Registration date : 2019-08-29
Re: Facts of the Day
December 22nd: Knowing Everything
In continuation from yesterday, Elsa sits apart, rejecting human company in favor of her overriding belief. After helping the other girls, though, Triela unexpectedly turns to her, only to be firmly rejected:
It is a commentary: is there anything the fanatic doesn't understand? No, no there isn't. Elsa has Lauro and her love. Nothing else matters, therefore there is nothing important she doesn't understand.
"Is that so."
Triela's response is offered with an understanding, and I sometimes think an ever-so-slightly amused, smile. This is where Elsa is at, and although she can try to help it will be rebuffed. People cannot be forced to learn. So she gently backs off, leaving the door open to keep trying in the future...
In continuation from yesterday, Elsa sits apart, rejecting human company in favor of her overriding belief. After helping the other girls, though, Triela unexpectedly turns to her, only to be firmly rejected:
It is a commentary: is there anything the fanatic doesn't understand? No, no there isn't. Elsa has Lauro and her love. Nothing else matters, therefore there is nothing important she doesn't understand.
"Is that so."
Triela's response is offered with an understanding, and I sometimes think an ever-so-slightly amused, smile. This is where Elsa is at, and although she can try to help it will be rebuffed. People cannot be forced to learn. So she gently backs off, leaving the door open to keep trying in the future...
Neichus-
Forum Posts : 88
Location : US
Fan of : Little Gidding, The Basilica of Sant' Andrea, and Tetramorium immigrans
Original Characters : A
Comments : "It was not impossible, for she was the sky."
Registration date : 2019-08-29
Re: Facts of the Day
December 23rd: Jose Knew
One key difference between Henrietta's attempted suicide in the manga versus the anime is that Jose knew beforehand in the latter.
You can see in the manga how Jose is about to hand the gun over before Elenora snatches it from his hand. In the anime, it is Elenora who is holding the gun and is about to give it to Henrietta when Jose stops her.
You can see her confusion and his solemn knowledge. And as Henrietta described what she would do if her handler never loved her back, Jose peered at her intensely... but without surprise:
Finally, in case this were not clear, Pietro has a new line in which he simply says, "You knew how Elsa died from the start, didn't you?"
The question of course, here, then, is why Jose did nothing if he knew. That is the conundrum, and failure, of his character in the anime. He has steadily fallen into a habit, a moral lethargy where he no longer seeks to do what is right but simply pretend everything is okay. Keep Henrietta appearing happy while doing nothing to address her true needs. He knew where it was headed and that he did nothing is the sad last sign of where he has reached.
One key difference between Henrietta's attempted suicide in the manga versus the anime is that Jose knew beforehand in the latter.
You can see in the manga how Jose is about to hand the gun over before Elenora snatches it from his hand. In the anime, it is Elenora who is holding the gun and is about to give it to Henrietta when Jose stops her.
You can see her confusion and his solemn knowledge. And as Henrietta described what she would do if her handler never loved her back, Jose peered at her intensely... but without surprise:
Finally, in case this were not clear, Pietro has a new line in which he simply says, "You knew how Elsa died from the start, didn't you?"
The question of course, here, then, is why Jose did nothing if he knew. That is the conundrum, and failure, of his character in the anime. He has steadily fallen into a habit, a moral lethargy where he no longer seeks to do what is right but simply pretend everything is okay. Keep Henrietta appearing happy while doing nothing to address her true needs. He knew where it was headed and that he did nothing is the sad last sign of where he has reached.
Neichus-
Forum Posts : 88
Location : US
Fan of : Little Gidding, The Basilica of Sant' Andrea, and Tetramorium immigrans
Original Characters : A
Comments : "It was not impossible, for she was the sky."
Registration date : 2019-08-29
Re: Facts of the Day
December 24th
As the credits roll across the screen, one of the scenes that appears is of Marco sitting next to Angelica. If you watch closely his right elbow moves ever so slightly, reaching out to hold her hand.
As the credits roll across the screen, one of the scenes that appears is of Marco sitting next to Angelica. If you watch closely his right elbow moves ever so slightly, reaching out to hold her hand.
Neichus-
Forum Posts : 88
Location : US
Fan of : Little Gidding, The Basilica of Sant' Andrea, and Tetramorium immigrans
Original Characters : A
Comments : "It was not impossible, for she was the sky."
Registration date : 2019-08-29
Re: Facts of the Day
Love that. So different from her ending in the manga, yet still so heart-wrenching and meaningful.
Thescarredman-
Forum Posts : 2226
Location : Toledo, Ohio, United States
Fan of : Rico, Bice
Original Characters : Kristal & Verotrois / Doc; Angel / Jack Keaton; Tiffany/Stefan
Comments : .
Mario Bossi would make a better handler than Marco Toni. Come to think of it, so would Christiano.
.
Elizaveta didn't jump - she was pushed.
.
Sofia was pregnant. It would have been a boy.
.
John Doe faked his own death - twice.
.
Enrica taught Jose everything he knows about the night sky.
Registration date : 2012-02-04
Your character
OC genger: 40
Re: Facts of the Day
It is admirable that you were able to perceive so much from this portion of the series, far more than I. Your study is philosophical, analytical and with a depth perception I frankly lack. By contrast, when I first saw those two episodes, (I read the comic later), I was merely taken aback by the emotional content. As I read your take on the character's world view and feelings, I think how I would have loved to see the cyborg psychologist's evaluation of Elsa and whether he found anything disturbing enough to report it to Lauro. (I imagine he must have found something)
With Lauro being my fav character, I like to entertain the possibility of his having been alerted to the looming danger deSica represented.
With Lauro being my fav character, I like to entertain the possibility of his having been alerted to the looming danger deSica represented.
tremec6speed-
Forum Posts : 2037
Fan of : Lauro and Olga!
Original Characters : Vinson/Helen/Salvatore + Gunther/Ayden. Baddies are a small group of 'techno-anarchists'
Comments : I hope to include a short illustrated fanfic story of both Mr. Yutaka Aida's characters as well as some I've come up with.
Registration date : 2009-08-25
Re: Facts of the Day
Thanks for your praise. S1 is truly a depth piece and I admire it greatly.
As for the looming danger, I'm not sure it would have been obvious. Elsa was perfectly loyal and loving, capable in her job and unwavering in her devotion. I'm not sure they would have sensed anything wrong with her.
As for the looming danger, I'm not sure it would have been obvious. Elsa was perfectly loyal and loving, capable in her job and unwavering in her devotion. I'm not sure they would have sensed anything wrong with her.
Neichus-
Forum Posts : 88
Location : US
Fan of : Little Gidding, The Basilica of Sant' Andrea, and Tetramorium immigrans
Original Characters : A
Comments : "It was not impossible, for she was the sky."
Registration date : 2019-08-29
Re: Facts of the Day
Can we expect a resumption of 'Fact' anytime soon?
Thescarredman-
Forum Posts : 2226
Location : Toledo, Ohio, United States
Fan of : Rico, Bice
Original Characters : Kristal & Verotrois / Doc; Angel / Jack Keaton; Tiffany/Stefan
Comments : .
Mario Bossi would make a better handler than Marco Toni. Come to think of it, so would Christiano.
.
Elizaveta didn't jump - she was pushed.
.
Sofia was pregnant. It would have been a boy.
.
John Doe faked his own death - twice.
.
Enrica taught Jose everything he knows about the night sky.
Registration date : 2012-02-04
Your character
OC genger: 40
Re: Facts of the Day
Maybe?
The basic problem is that these Facts are taking more time than I want, in part due to perfectionism but also because I'm basically out of simple factoids and so end up writing these longer multi-day pieces that require planning. During December I started working on an essay for The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya S1 and that pushed me over the edge where I just didn't have the desire to do all that.
So I'm awaiting seeing when I finish my essay whether I can find a happier balance that I was approaching previously.
The basic problem is that these Facts are taking more time than I want, in part due to perfectionism but also because I'm basically out of simple factoids and so end up writing these longer multi-day pieces that require planning. During December I started working on an essay for The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya S1 and that pushed me over the edge where I just didn't have the desire to do all that.
So I'm awaiting seeing when I finish my essay whether I can find a happier balance that I was approaching previously.
Neichus-
Forum Posts : 88
Location : US
Fan of : Little Gidding, The Basilica of Sant' Andrea, and Tetramorium immigrans
Original Characters : A
Comments : "It was not impossible, for she was the sky."
Registration date : 2019-08-29
Re: Facts of the Day
Alfisti complained of a similar situation when he was doing the comic strip. It crowded out everything else.
Thescarredman-
Forum Posts : 2226
Location : Toledo, Ohio, United States
Fan of : Rico, Bice
Original Characters : Kristal & Verotrois / Doc; Angel / Jack Keaton; Tiffany/Stefan
Comments : .
Mario Bossi would make a better handler than Marco Toni. Come to think of it, so would Christiano.
.
Elizaveta didn't jump - she was pushed.
.
Sofia was pregnant. It would have been a boy.
.
John Doe faked his own death - twice.
.
Enrica taught Jose everything he knows about the night sky.
Registration date : 2012-02-04
Your character
OC genger: 40
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