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Facts of the Day

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Post by Neichus Tue 8 Oct 2019 - 20:33

So I've been making these posts in Discord for a few days and I was asked if I would put them here as well for ease of access.  Subsequently the first few will be in the wrong dates, but such as it is.  I started off with the theme of locations.

September 28th: 
The doors in the background of this piece of promotional art are the "Gates of Paradise" by Ghiberti in front of the baptistry in Florence.  I find this impressive not only for its verisimilitude but the poignancy of the message of the series; I will likely return to this image at a later date.

Facts of the Day Gunsli10

An image of the gates for reference:

Facts of the Day Gates-10
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Post by Neichus Tue 8 Oct 2019 - 20:40

September 29th:
The OP takes place in Venice, despite no episode ever taking place there.  There are a few features which let you know of the location:

First are the winged lions on the pillars, which are iconic of St. Mark, the patron saint of Venice:
Facts of the Day 07_fad10

An example photograph to compare:

Facts of the Day 45Ki7Go

Second: an interesting reference is that Henrietta is next to Bar Vivaldi.  Vivaldi was based in Venice, and even more poignantly he was involved in the Ospedale della Pieta, which was an orphanage for female children in which he taught them to play music.  Henrietta, standing there with her case, is denied this.

Facts of the Day NSyGkOe


Last edited by Neichus on Thu 31 Oct 2019 - 20:26; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Neichus Tue 8 Oct 2019 - 20:43

September 30th:
To continue with the theme of location work, in Episode 9 they visit Siena as clearly stated.  It's a pretty impressive recreation:

Facts of the Day WMsRtH6
Facts of the Day Ayvnxnh

However, the tower which they use to snipe the police chief has special signifiance.  As Lauro mentions he has connections with the historical bureau, and to quote Art Through the Ages:

"The heavy walls and battlements of the [Siena] town hall eloquently express the frequent need of city governors to defend themselves against their own citizens. The high tower, out of reach of most missiles, [is built for] a vertical defense of the tower’s base."

In other words, the history of this tower is specifically of one built by a government in order that it might maintain control by raining death down on those who would oppose it.

Facts of the Day YNa1stl
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Post by Neichus Tue 8 Oct 2019 - 20:47

October 1st:
During the abduction sequence in Episode 12, this image is shown briefly:

Facts of the Day LsHiAmI

This is a statue of Vittorio Emanuele II, the first king of a united Italy.  I've debated if this is mean to be significant (the SWA battling separatists within sight of the great unifier) or just scene-setting (outskirts of Rome).  It's a great recreation of the area either way (each building is identifiable in the picture and anime): 

Facts of the Day 0D7LNWH
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Post by Neichus Tue 8 Oct 2019 - 21:14

October 2nd:
Next few days are a tour of Florence, this being part 1 of 3.  The artists for Gunslinger Girl love the Uffizi.  The remarkable thing is that you can map out every room that is shown.

Ground floor map of real Uffizi:

Facts of the Day KuqXzN5

The inside of the Uffizi begins with a 3-part montage which picture the Eastern Corridor:
Facts of the Day TRNMtjw
Facts of the Day NMaqm4K

The Riaperta la Sala Della Niobe (Room 42 on the map):
Facts of the Day K36BNqC
Facts of the Day Eybxzq8

And the Tribuna degli Uffizi (Room 18 on the map):
Facts of the Day SJmIgx7
Facts of the Day YneCmdM

Continued tomorrow.
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Post by Neichus Tue 8 Oct 2019 - 21:19

October 3rd:
Uffizi continued.  The characters first visit the Lippi Gallery (Room 8 on the map).  They first stop in front of the "Madonna and Child with Two Angels," and this is one of the best recreations of art in the series:

Facts of the Day 8KgtLEb
Facts of the Day 9KJF42i

You can see where they would be standing in this Google navigation picture I arranged.  The two paintings behind the characters are the "Adoration of the Child" and "Coronation of the Virgin":

Facts of the Day 9rDxNG4
Facts of the Day WJt1JS8

Interestingly, if you compare this to the manga you'll see that the anime eschewed accuracy in favor of following the source: the actual painting is not that tall.
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Post by Neichus Tue 8 Oct 2019 - 21:25

October 4th:
Completing the tour of the Uffizi.  After the Lippi gallery, where they are first followed by Christiano and Guglielmo, the characters move into the Botticelli Gallery (Room 10-14 on the map), which is right next door.  Comparative shots, where even the seats and air conditioners are recreated:

Facts of the Day XJhlxdL
Facts of the Day GdRMmsM

While Rico and Filippo stand in front of the Venus, C and G start talking in front of the "Portinari Altarpiece" (which is by Hugo van der Goes, no Botticelli) before moving over in front of "Man with a Medal" and the "Adoration of the Magi" in the corner:

Facts of the Day VyCLafd
Facts of the Day ZmJxRJg
Facts of the Day OMZagMH

Another angle shows the circular "Madonna with Child'< which is in a different place in the photographs, but that is likely due to the museum shifting things around.  In fact, this entire gallery has been revamped in the intervening years so it no longer looks like this.

Facts of the Day HS14apx

Then, as a final point of reference, you can see Brunelleschi's Dome out of the window of the bathroom after Jean cuts Guglielmo's ear off.  given the orientation of the Uffizi, it must be the bathrooms between A and 1, facing north with the Palazzo Vecchio on the right (seen later when they are running around town):
Facts of the Day ArPLZDV
Facts of the Day ZjUynZH

Anyway, thanks for joining me on a tour of the Uffizi, led by an artist-accountant, a psychopath, and a sensitive child.  Work for the future is to spend a bit of time with a map and figure out what street that final image is taken from.  I'm willing to bet with a bit of work you could reconstruct the path they take through Florence during the escape.
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Post by Neichus Tue 8 Oct 2019 - 21:29

October 8th:
I'm going to start on the theme of readables for a few days.

Facts of the Day JK5FipM

In episode 2, Jose hands a form to a clerk for his outing with Henrietta.  The Italian and English are as follows (credit to u/Manitary for translation):

“Autorizzaione per uscita

Reparto di appartenenza del richiedente Settore 2
Nome e cognome del richiedente
Si autorizza il seguente in base all'art. 21
del regolamento: Giuse[ff]o Croce (or maybe Giusello?)

1. Motivo di destinazione
Studio del galateo e della societa' [?] (looks like 'cenate')
2. Luogo di destinazione
Ristorante La T[?]azza (looks like 'Tacezza')
3. Indirizzo di destinazione
Via Ludovi[?], 49 - ROMA (looks like 'Ludovisi')
4. Condizione per [?]rizzazione (looks like 'laurizzazione')
Accompagnato dal fratello
5. Scadenza
Fino al 28 luglio 2000”



“Leave permit

Department of the applicant: Section 2
Name and surname of the applicant: Giuseppe Croce

1. Reason for the leave
Study of etiquette and civil society
2. Place of destination
Restaurant La Terrazza
3. Destination address
Via Ludovisi, 49 - ROMA
4. Condition for authorisation
Accompanied by her brother/fratello
5. Expiration
28th July 2000”

This slip roots the series in a timeline which gives Henrietta's appearance at the Agency to be in July 2000.  Furthermore, there is a Restaurant Terrazza at Via Ludovi 49, and it is rather upscale and so fitting.  It doesn't visually fit inside, but it's been 16+years, so that's not surprising.

A few other minor things are that the canon spelling in the anime is supposed to be Giuseppe (I'll still call him Jose); it is also curiously the only time that his last name, "Croce," is mentioned in the anime.  Reasons for this are unknown.  Finally, there is also a small error: Jose's handwriting is in the same font as the document itself
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Post by Alfisti Wed 9 Oct 2019 - 3:56

Thanks a heap for chucking those up here, makes it a bit easier to go find them at a later date.
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Post by Neichus Wed 9 Oct 2019 - 20:48

October 9th:
Hilshire's Newspaper

In episode 4 Hilshire is reading a newspaper as he and Triela are on the lookout for Mario.  On the front is a report of a woman suicide bomber in Jerusalem (more specifically, a kamikaze woman who caused a massacre which the USA blames Arafat for): 
Facts of the Day TnXFrO4

On the back is an advertisement for a "child-friendly cancer parade".  The phrasing is weird, as much of the Italian in this series is pretty mashed, but I took it as something of a fundraiser/awareness function. 
Facts of the Day 9NIMoJu

I've always seen this as an interesting little nod to the problem that one finds throughout much of the anime, that in a single edition concerning the world there are things horrible and things wonderful.  Reminds me a bit of some song lyrics:

"Papers in the roadside tell of suffering and grief 
Here today, forgot tomorrow
Ooh, here beside the news of holy war and holy need

Ours is just a little sorrowed talk"
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Post by Neichus Thu 10 Oct 2019 - 22:01

October 10th: Lauro's Editorial

Facts of the Day Hnwkp1G

In episode 9, as Lauro sits in the car he is reading the Editorials page, a commentary on his vulgar personality that even as he orders men killed he is so bored as to be perusing a magazine.

However, the first red sentence is also (mostly) legible and reads, "Tra sogni dubbi e sperica viste" or "Between dubious dreams and hopes seen."

I will be the first to admit that the last words of this sentence are difficult to read, and I may have them wrong.  However, the first part at least is perfectly fitting, and a sad harbinger of Elsa's love.
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Post by Thescarredman Fri 11 Oct 2019 - 20:52

I thought he was looking at the advertisement on the next page.
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Post by Neichus Fri 11 Oct 2019 - 21:34

October 11th: Rico's school books

This is one of my favorite small set pieces for its biting commentary.  In Episode 9 Rico is struggling with her German work when Triela comes to help her.  You see a brief flash of the page:

Facts of the Day EzZnyVH

You will notice that the numbers on the page (.233, 5.56, and 7.62) have particular relevance: they are, of course, calibers of ammunition.  It is one of the many small signs that this place is not right, that a school book for children has these as examples.

The motif continues below.  They are lists of terms: "man", "woman", "father", "mother".... and "student."  No child, no girl, no daughter.  Just a receptacle, sitting here.

Finally, this image happens to contain a couple of errors.  The closed books are right-bound rather than left-bound, and "Traduca" should be "Traduci" in the Italian.

(Also, in reply to Thescarredman: I could see that too.  That'd be even one step lower.)
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Post by Neichus Sat 12 Oct 2019 - 17:23

October 12th: Elsa's Ballistics report

Facts of the Day SDlKMvm

This is the worst Italian in the show (worse even than Claes' dossier in ep5), with odd repeats, typos, and muddled phrases.

"Agenzia di informazioni degli STATI UNITI di societa di capitali di assistenza sociale sociale di societa di servizio pubblico"

In translation (again, thanks to u/Manitary):

"US information agency of [capital society] of social social assistance of society of public service"

Where "capital society" is his closest translation of a generic term in Italian for any type of corporation.  The thing's a mess overall, but apparently they outsourced their ballistics analysis to a US company/agency/???, my speculation being to keep it a secret from their own government (which makes sense considering what is going on).

There's also a fun Easter egg: the author of the report is Marco Pantani, a famous Italian cyclist.
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Post by Thescarredman Sat 12 Oct 2019 - 18:36

Your catch of Italian errors reminds me of the Mandarin uttered by the actors in 'Firefly': supposedly good written language but horrible pronunciation. Sometimes two actors would pronounce the same word entirely differently, even when speaking to each other.
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Post by Neichus Sun 13 Oct 2019 - 21:57

October 13th: Triela Observant

Facts of the Day Y0HojYo
Facts of the Day Fa8N0VM


This is going to be a little bit of a departure from the other facts I've offered thus far.  It's more of a short thought that I had flit through my head and wanted to share.

Two times in the series there is a particular shot of Triela where her eyes are clearly seen but her mouth is hidden.  In the first she is watching Henrietta take a walk with Jose at the end of ep4, and in the second Claes has just caught her in her teasing in ep9.  No other girl is framed like this.  I do not believe these are designed to be parallels, but they contribute to who she is.

By covering the mouth her exact expression is uncertain, an effect deepened by the appearance of her eyes.  They are not narrowed or widened in clear feeling; merely focused on something, making note of it, observing.  It gives the sense that she is aware when watching others and that this awareness precedes reaction.  This is particularly relevant in the second, where rather than be dismayed she is simply attentive.

For me, these shots contribute to the many other details that build the anime Triela, a character who is very active in her kindness by being conscious of who the people around her are.
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Post by Neichus Mon 14 Oct 2019 - 20:39

October 14th: Temple of Art

Today's fact is a bit more complicated than normal, but I was reminded of it last night when talking with Marissa so I figured I may as well discuss it today as it helps preface some observations down the line.

Facts of the Day IMrHoRZ

In episode 7 after Jean, Rico, and Filippo leave the Uffizi there is this sign briefly shown.  It is not an error it is Japanese, for it is a money exchange sign for Yen to Euros.  What is it there for, though?  A short diversion then an explanation...

Throughout the series, light is divine.  Its usage is a small essay in itself, but one of its notable functions is to grace the good.  And the Uffizi is full of light (https://i.imgur.com/NMaqm4K.jpg, https://i.imgur.com/QHSl4kG.jpg, https://i.imgur.com/aBjcQDw.jpg).  The series is reverent toward this place of beauty, extolling what it contains and the heights that it represents.  You might say it's a place of worship, something that Rico in particular feels.

So to return to the initial question, what we are seeing is a sign for money changers in a temple, and one of the series' more hidden religious references which I find quite clever.
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Post by Thescarredman Tue 15 Oct 2019 - 19:13

I remember that even Cristiano revered the Uffuzi, refusing to let his men perform any rough stuff in such a repository of national culture.

Jean, apparently, is no art lover... except possibly of Van Gogh.
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Post by Neichus Tue 15 Oct 2019 - 20:37

October 15th

When Raballo is talking to Claes in his room a shot is shown of the book on gardening he is reading: 

Facts of the Day 98EM758

The title can be read ("La verdure coltivate in casa") and translates to, "The vegetables grown at home."  Nothing particularly surprising considering the conversation.  But if you look closer you'll see that it is authored by Guido Mista.

Guido Mista is a character in the JoJo's franchise, specifically an Italian assassin.  So an assassin is writing a book about gardening, being read by a soldier who dreams of gardening, in a series about assassins who would be more suited to gardening.

So yes, that is a JoJo's reference.  We've all been memed.

(And to reply to TSM again: Yeah.  The anime plays Jean's philistine nature up even more than the manga; he is totally unable to grasp art and beauty being who he is there.)
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Post by Neichus Wed 16 Oct 2019 - 20:09

October 16th: Roman Holiday

Facts of the Day GKc7Sir

In episode 6, Henrietta is rewarded with gelato while at the Spanish Steps for her efforts in the capture of Enrico Perdini.  When Jose asks if that's all she wants she smiles and says, "There's meaning behind gelato on the Spanish Steps."

Henrietta is referencing the movie Roman Holiday in which a sheltered princess falls in love with an American newsman, having met him on the Spanish Steps while eating gelato.  Her fantasy is all too obvious, and when Franca also comments that, "I'm glad your gelato is fine, you came to the Spanish Steps after all" she smiles to see somebody else recognizes what a coup she's pulled on Jose.

What interests me, and perhaps others can comment on this, is whether this is intended in the original.  The events are the same, but in the manga neither she nor Franca speak those lines (at least in the version I have), which makes the reference far less clear, but also highly coincidental if so.
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Post by Neichus Thu 17 Oct 2019 - 19:57

October 17th: Cinema Paradiso

Facts of the Day IWa2GNf

As Pietro and Elenora make their way to the Croce family home on Sicily, Pietro complains that this is not a place to come for business.  Elenora replies:

"Nope!  'Living here day by day, you think it's the center of the world.'"

What Elenora appears to be quoting is a line from Cinema Paradiso, a 1988 movie about a boy who grew up on Sicily and now returns home.  The greater part of the quote:

"Living here day by day, you think it's the center of the world.  You believe nothing will ever change.  Then you leave: a year, two years.  When you come back, everything's changed.  The thread's broken.  What you came to find isn't here.  What was yours is gone."

This is an incredibly apt quotation to what is going on with Jose, how he's losing Henrietta, and how his retreat here to old safe havens is a sham to keep things going.  It's really quite remarkable, and makes it a nice pair with the movie reference yesterday.

However, here's the rub: so far as I can tell this isn't what she says in the manga nor in most translations, which read a prosaic "Yes, it feels as if you're at the center of the world here."  It's only the Funimation version which puts the "day by day" in it and makes it clearly a reference (and I have... a high degree of skepticism toward Funi's translation).  My supposition is that Yu Aida likely watched a Japanese translation of Cinema Paradiso which used a different phrase that the common one available in English.  In which case Funi actually got something right by identifying the reference and adjusting it to be more clear.
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Post by Thescarredman Thu 17 Oct 2019 - 21:03

It must be exceedingly difficult to translate from Japanese to English, especially in a dub, and maintain a coherent narrative. One of my favorite ways to view anime is to watch it with sub AND dub running, and see how wildly different the two translations are.
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Mario Bossi would make a better handler than Marco Toni. Come to think of it, so would Christiano.
.
Elizaveta didn't jump - she was pushed.
.
Sofia was pregnant. It would have been a boy.
.
John Doe faked his own death - twice.
.
Enrica taught Jose everything he knows about the night sky.

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Post by Neichus Fri 18 Oct 2019 - 20:11

October 18th: Weapon Swap

Facts of the Day XdZpswo

In the first episode an unnamed terrorist has an AKS-47.  In a small continuity error this transforms into a regular AK-47 a minute later.  Credit to IMFDB for this one. 

Facts of the Day RF3dOZe

(To TSM: The dub for GSG is an interesting case... and perhaps some day I'll talk about my suspicions toward it. Very Happy)
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Post by Neichus Sat 19 Oct 2019 - 23:22

October 19th: Disappearing Earpiece

Gonna be short tonight, so doing a simple error.  At the beginning of ep12 Henrietta and Triela are talking.  In one scene Triela can be seen to have nothing in her ear: 
Facts of the Day WVV4Acr

But a few moments later Jose comes over the the earpieces... which Triela has now mysteriously acquired (presumably Henrietta has one in her hair we can't see):
Facts of the Day N8por3h

And then after they leave the training room the earpiece is gone again:
Facts of the Day LuA0y9k
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Post by Thescarredman Sun 20 Oct 2019 - 19:32

Interesting oversight. Obviously in the scene where it appeared, it needed to be there to make clear where Hilshire's voice was coming from. I'd guess the scenes weren't drawn by the same animators.
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Post by Neichus Sun 20 Oct 2019 - 22:39

October 20th: Angelica Infirmed

This is something I didn't notice on the first few watches of the show, but unlike in the manga Angelica is paralyzed from the neck down and only steadily regains her body.  When she is introduced all she can do is lift her head: 

Facts of the Day 1zXt4lj

Later on when she is greeted by other members she can only weakly lift her arms (with the wrappings around her wrists indicating significant work): 

Facts of the Day PdulzSH

A bit later she can sit up: 

Facts of the Day LbTkdcV

And then after major reconstruction (https://i.imgur.com/aMsh0vM.jpg) she can finally stand and control her body.  This is when she is first seen on the range and can finally move totally under her own control.

I find this an excellent demonstration of the anime's restraint.  It does not focus on her physical suffering to elicit pity, for that would simply be vulgar to torture these girls for our sake.  By shifting the emphasis subtly away it keeps the focus on the importance of the emotional story and keeps it in good taste.
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Post by Neichus Mon 21 Oct 2019 - 20:15

October 21st: Retooled Ideas, Rico Part 1

I'm going to start another themed series today.  In the introductory episodes of Rico, Triela, Claes, and Angelica the anime takes a facet of their chapter and retools it for a metaphorical purpose.

For Rico, this is music.  In the original chapter, music makes an incidental appearance when Emilio mistakes her weapon case for carrying an instrument: 

Facts of the Day 013

This later prompts her to ask Henrietta if it is difficult to learn to play, in clear connection with her desire to reciprocate in the budding romance: 

Facts of the Day 022

In the anime they took this idea and ran with it, except that rather than just being a singular desire to impress Emilio it becomes representative of self-expression and connection in general.  The differences begin during the rooftop conversation, where the anime adds a new exchange in which Claes asks Henrietta about music.  On hearing the subject Rico becomes dumbstruck:

Facts of the Day 7eBa7Ia

The subsequent memory has her walking through a hall and hearing Henrietta's music and seeing Jose watching her play.  In silent longing she stands outside the room, looking in, wishing that she, too, could create something beautiful and have another listen to her as well... 

Facts of the Day WMenm24

(Continued tomorrow)
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Post by Neichus Tue 22 Oct 2019 - 20:10

October 22nd: Retooled Ideas, Rico Part 2

The second major addition the anime makes to episode 3 is Rico trying to play the violin... and being unable.  She bows inexpertly, the notes trembling and uncertain.  It requires another's help, and with Henrietta's assistance she is able to make a little bit of her own music: 

Facts of the Day 2Ivg6oM

From a literal perspective it is of course ridiculous that Rico be able to make anything other than noise on her first try, but that is not the point of the scene.  It is to emphasize that she is so battered and abused that she doesn't even know how to express herself.  She desperately needs assistance.  And when she finally gets it, it is as Henrietta remarks, "Isn't that a lovely sound?"

Facts of the Day Z1u4Z0r

In the background the wind blows in sympathy, something that occurs several times in the series reflecting deep sentiment.  And as the scene ends the song merges into Tema II, the same song that Henrietta played for Jose and caused Triela to look wistfully into the distance on the roof; Rico, too, just wants to be connected.

Facts of the Day 2FVAg4H


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Post by Neichus Wed 23 Oct 2019 - 20:42

October 23rd: Retooled Ideas, Triela Part 1

Continuing to Triela, episode 4 ends up reusing two different ideas in novel ways.  The first is her period.  In the manga it is the cause of her poor behavior, a point emphasized by her holding her stomach preceding her lashing out at Hilshire: 

Facts of the Day 003

In the anime this has been inverted: her period is not the cause but the manifestation of her poor mental state.  Something is off about her relationship with Hilshire and it hurts dearly.

As such, the anime removes her holding her stomach, instead framing her barb as something that escapes her against her will.  Her tight-lipped mouth gives way to a stony stare, angry but not the spiteful grin of the manga: 

Facts of the Day QKiY8ht
Facts of the Day IBOTe6d

This begins to approach the difference in portrayal of the Trielas.  The manga chapter begins with her beating Giacometti up, the anime quietly supporting Henrietta from behind the scenes.  Manga Triela insults Hilshire because she's kind of a brat and is in an extra-worse mood, but anime Triela's insult forces us to ask: why can't these two good people get along? 

Facts of the Day Hp3hkwf
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Post by Thescarredman Thu 24 Oct 2019 - 19:06

There are subtexts to both sides of the relationship. Triela is too analytical of her feelings for her handler, never sure where conditioning ends and affection begins. Hilshire is carrying a freight of guilt: he sees Rachelle and remembers his promise to her every time he looks at his little partner, as well as reliving the shock of discovering the nature of the 'cure' that the SWA provided for the comatose girl-child he delivered into their care.
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Post by Neichus Thu 24 Oct 2019 - 20:04

October 24th: Retooled Ideas, Triela Part 2

Later in the manga when Triela is talking to Henrietta she admits that she's been having cramps and that she "Can't think of anything else."  This is connected to the next scene where the men of Section I mock her, causing her to look forward angrily while fixated on her pain:

Facts of the Day 009

In the anime, this sequence builds a different narrative.  Both "I can't think of anything else" and "My tummy hurts" are erased, and her angry stare is replaced by morose reflectiveness.  Rather than period cramps made worse by thoughtless men, Triela is so preoccupied concerning her relationship with Hilshire that she does not even notice: 

Facts of the Day 8uim12x

To emphasize this, the men's lines are altered in the anime, where the firsts asks why she's here and the second replies, "She's waiting for her prince."  Furthering this theme, the scene afterward where they walk along the arcade is expanded compared to the manga.  When Hilshire says they are leaving for Naples, Triela closes her eyes in pain, preparing herself (you can see they copied the expression here from her "My tummy hurts" above): 

Facts of the Day X64r68W

Hilshire, noticing she is unwell, stops.  But as his conversation with Jose earlier emphasized, he doesn't understand what is wrong.  It's the strength of this metaphor that the problem is internal, personal, and something he (being male) cannot understand, this lack of comprehension extending to her psychological state by analogy.  Something is missing, and Triela looks at him expectantly, waiting, hoping that he will tell her what it is: 

Facts of the Day K3K4UQf

(To TSM: This is an interesting aside, but you'll notice that the anime actually omits most of the backstory for both.  Just that she was from the child ring in Amsterdam and he was once part of Europol.  Their relationship before this place is ignored, as is their potential baggage beyond that.  As for where the conditioning ends and the affection begins, that awaits an analysis of Amare...)
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Post by Neichus Fri 25 Oct 2019 - 19:16

October 25th: Retooled Ideas, Triela Part 3

I realized at the rate I was going I'd end up writing on this episode for another week and I don't want to do that.  There is a deep poignancy in Triela's desire to be a daughter in the anime that I just cannot represent in snippets.  I'm going to skip to the end for one final installment of the idea, though.

In an anime-only scene Triela returns to the agency and Henrietta asks her if she is feeling any better.  She responds, "Nope" but her tone and stance don't indicate any unhappiness: 

Facts of the Day 52VIUpX

Asking about her period, the question that is answered concerns the real source of her problems.  Triela wants Hilshire to be a loving father to her... and it will never happen.  She will never lose that ache.  Yet in one of my favorite shots of the series they both appreciated that together, watching a mother give her child a present: 

Facts of the Day WSoELuL

This shared realization is a connection, too, that what they have can be made good as well.
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Post by tremec6speed Fri 25 Oct 2019 - 20:25

WOw great detective work, getting all the info. Very interesting and thought- provoking thread. 
Um, just a blip of an opinion though, if I may, being and ardent Lauro fan-for-life, 'vulgar' as a description, is wellll, heh heh, anyway, other than that, great work! lolz
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Post by Neichus Sat 26 Oct 2019 - 17:33

October 26th: Retooled Ideas, Triela Part 4

Aside from Triela's problems, there is a second detail that is given extra import: the bears.  In both they are half-hearted gifts from Hilshire, representing his lack of real understanding, but the anime give them a few additional layers.

When Henrietta is first admiring them, she names them off.  This allows them to be identified in later parts of the scene.  When she sits down and is thinking about Jose she is holding "Happy": 

Facts of the Day YbUg8R4

Meanwhile, when Triela is frustrated with Hilshire, talking about how he is just giving he presents that don't really mean anything, it is "Bashful", the one awkward at expressing his feelings, that she is staring at: 

Facts of the Day FJzp10E

This usage returns once more in Stelle Cadente, where when Henrietta is foolishly not doing what she should do she is staring at "Dopey": 

Facts of the Day XCC6pbL

Although the bears make several background appearances throughout the series, I cannot figure out any other scenes where their names appear relevant.  However, they do have another use...

(And to reply to tremec: Thank you!  I'm not sure what you find precisely objectionable to the description, though.  To be clear I'm not implying anything vulgar in the "crude" sense, like one who makes bad-taste jokes.  More in the archaic sense of lacking in finer sensibilities.)
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Post by Thescarredman Sat 26 Oct 2019 - 20:20

Tremec is famous for his unusual - and positive - take on Lauro. You two should have a discussion.
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Post by Neichus Sun 27 Oct 2019 - 20:03

October 27th: Retooled Ideas, Triela Part 5

The bears make one last significant contribution to the series in episode 10.  It is the scene where Jose has taken Henrietta out to a café, modeled after a segment in chapter 4 of the manga, and is an excellent illustration of how the anime changed its import. 

Facts of the Day LlAYuZZ

In the original Jose offers Henrietta stuffed animals out of genuine affection, reflecting their presence in Triela's chapter 3 which it follows.  In response, Henrietta raises her hands in embarrassment that her generous handler would even think about spoiling her too much.  Her excessive subservience bothers him, though, and he pushes through to give her what will make her happy.  The anime, though, is entirely different: 

Facts of the Day NH7bWhf

Here Henrietta's face falls on being offered more gifts.  Why?  Because the story being told has changed.  In the original this was near the beginning, introducing us to Henrietta.  The anime moved the scene toward the end of the series, where in this version she is beginning to lose faith in Jose.  As such, the bears aren't representative of true care at all, but yet another empty gift Jose is throwing at her... and she's beginning to sense it.  

Facts of the Day A9pZVEM

Jose's reaction is also modified.  He stares pensively at her before saying, "You are always working so hard. Here you go, your reward."  It is a novel line not present in the manga, and worrisome; he knows she doesn't want trinkets but his affection... so in order to get her to accept the camera he tells her it is a sign of appreciation.  It is an echo of an excuse he told her both at the end of Orione as well as the beginning of this episode, and it is becoming threadbare: 

Facts of the Day L8zXjDH
Facts of the Day ElbbOYR

(Finally, it is worth mentioning that a bear shows up in the OP on the stairs next to the girls.  It's not a specific one as far as I can tell, and so I've always taken it as a general indication of both youth and the love they desire)
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Post by Thescarredman Sun 27 Oct 2019 - 20:36

I believe that one of the bears makes a significant appearance at the very end of the manga. Just before Petra arrives at the dorm, Triela is about to go on an extended mission, leaving Claes alone. Claes tells herself what a relief it will be to have some added privacy. her reverie is broken by Triela forcing one of her bears on her, saying, "I know you get lonely."
At the very end of the manga, aboard the 'quarantine' ship, on our first look inside Claes's room, we see that it is equipped with bunks... and the same bear is sitting on the bottom bunk. Seeing that always make me a little sad.
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Post by Neichus Mon 28 Oct 2019 - 20:06

October 28th: Retooled Ideas, Claes Part 1

Facts of the Day CLdCKPs

Okay, finally on to the next girl.  Of all of the retooled ideas I'll be visiting, this one is closest to the manga.  As Raballo's view of Claes changes throughout the episode, so too does her clothing, outwardly reflecting the relationship.  In this case it's not so much different from the source as merely refining it: 

Facts of the Day 007

Comparing the manga with the anime up top, you can see how they changed her dress to a vest and shorts.  As this comes after an anime-original scene in which Raballo is talking about naming Claes a male name, it is an added emphasis of how he is viewing and dressing her: a boy, one of minimal concern.  This same sort of polishing can be seen in the next scene: 

Facts of the Day 011

In the manga she's wearing rough-looking hand-me-downs.  These are kept in the anime, but the pants are softened to look more like pajamas and the whole outfit colored a more feminine pale lilac: 

Facts of the Day 44QJJPu

As before, it follows on the insertion of a new line on Raballo's part, where he is repeating her name as he studies her picture.  This name, her full name, "Fleda Claes Johansson" is now associated with a girl.

(To TSM: Yeah, somebody linked that scene just the other day in Discord.  But I didn't know that ending; that is poignant.)
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Post by Neichus Tue 29 Oct 2019 - 20:22

October 29th: Retooled Ideas, Claes Part 2

Moving forward to the subway scene, Claes is now camouflaged in a dress for on-the-job training: 

Facts of the Day 020

The anime keeps the dress, but combined with her last scene at the lake has built a character who is elegant in this young woman's attire.  Her reply isn't a happy, "I'll do my best!" but an intelligent and reserved affirmation, accentuated by her long, regal neck: 

Facts of the Day Ss5aP1i

However, it is this very maturity which causes Raballo to err.  In an anime-original line he tells her that if she can't handle this then she's not fit for the real thing; give her the same spiel he gave the recruits to fire them up.  He is, of course, entirely wrong; she is not a little soldier but a child.  It is only after he has made several more such mistakes, costing him the person who needs him so, that he can finally see her pure white raiment (no present in the manga): 

Facts of the Day UYgTBRQ

In their final scene together, Claes is in pale green.  Young, healthy, growing.  Since the beginning of this episode she has flourished under him, his beautiful flowering daughter: 

Facts of the Day IuJW9fA

Finally, after he is gone, she is in brown.  Wilted, the springtime of her life over.  But rather than remain broken she rebuilds herself, and we have her final outfit.  The girlish blouse has become a womanly dress that is aged, stately, and entirely her own: 

Facts of the Day Du8IIfV

As a last remark, this is a case where I am not sure whether Yu Aida intended this in the manga.  Perhaps he did envision Claes' clothes to be lilac and green and brown, but without such details (as well as the refining touches of dialogue and other modifications) I find it harder to convince myself it contains a similar narrative.


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Post by Neichus Wed 30 Oct 2019 - 20:17

October 30th: Breather with Magic Scope

I'm just not really in the mood to write something large tonight, so I'm going to take a short break on the retooled ideas and do a simple error that was brought to my attention a few days ago.  In episode 12 when Angelica is preparing to enter the training run her weapon has no scope: 

Facts of the Day MUMmsvI

Then after Triela and Henrietta exit the room, it does: 

Facts of the Day QlZAd8p

Along with the earbud error from the other day, that's the second simple mistake in this scene, and one of several weaknesses in this episode.  It gives me the impression that Simbiosi was short-staffed and/or rushed in its production.  It's important and has a few great and crucial scenes, especially for Claes, but I suspect being sandwiched between Febbre Alta and Stella Cadente it didn't quite get the polish that other episodes did.


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Post by Thescarredman Thu 31 Oct 2019 - 19:34

I like the attention you give to the crafting of the anime: the behind the scenes stuff at Madhouse that went into the finished product we see and love. It's an aspect of GsG that I never lent much time or attention to, but my experience of it has become richer with your introduction to it.
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Post by Neichus Thu 31 Oct 2019 - 20:15

October 31st: Retooled Ideas, Angelica Part 1

Facts of the Day G0xZP5Y

Now we get to the most extensive reapplication of a manga idea, and the one I had in mind when I conceived of this set of posts.

"The Prince of the Pasta Kingdom," is the title for both the chapters and episode related to Angelica.  In the manga it is a sweet story that shows all the care she is given by those at the Agency, and how she loses it from Marco when he no longer tells it to her.  The anime contains this, but more: 

Facts of the Day OfXe23j

Marco: "Though I just make the story up as I go along."
Bianchi: "Oh?  That was your story?  I figured it was from one of Patrizia's children's books."

This isn't just any story.  This is Marco's story.  In the anime, he is the Prince and the tale he tells is his own.  One can see the rearrangement and emphasis compared to the manga panels above, Bianchi's surprise highlighting this crucial point.

But to what end?  As is the anime's habit, it is to prove a point the opposite of the source.  Angelica was precious and innocent and needed protection.  Everybody around her knew it, knew that training her to kill was wrong.  No, more than wrong.  Profane.  Yet none of them opposed it, and when the time came all these people who apparently cared so much about Angelica abandoned her.  And running through it is the fairy tale, a tragic reminder of exactly how terribly she was failed while everybody just watched. 

Facts of the Day EVDxyaA

(And thanks TSM, I appreciate it.  And you haven't even gotten to my big thesis yet...) Very Happy
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Post by Neichus Fri 1 Nov 2019 - 20:10

November 1st: Retooled Ideas, Angelica Part 2

Facts of the Day IzY1s5r

As I began yesterday, the fairy tale told by Marco is his story with Angelica, and in a sense the story of all the girls and their trainers.

The title card hints at this in two ways.  The first is the contrast of the two names.  Many of the episodes have a Japanese and Italian title which are not the same, and in turn complement each other (material for future FotDs).  Here, they are telling us explicitly in the Japanese that this episode is a fairy tale; that is one of its actual names.  This is reinforced by the music, which switches to a short whimsical trill, just the sort that begins fairy tales.  It is heard nowhere else (the musical vocabulary of the series is another future FotD series...). 

Facts of the Day 0iKVSpD

Now, the title card doesn't stand alone.  It comes in the middle of Henrietta's interview with Bianchi, which is in my view the greatest opening scene in the series for more reasons than will be discussed here.  It opens nicely, with Henrietta giving off a chipper vibe; nothing wrong here.  But after the title card fades, the interview shifts, and it begins to give a glimpse of the dissonance that all those watching represent.

(Continued tomorrow)
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Facts of the Day Empty Re: Facts of the Day

Post by Thescarredman Sat 2 Nov 2019 - 17:57

In both the anime and the manga - especially the manga - the interviews with 'Etta and Ange are some of the creepiest and most disturbing moments in the series. Can't wait to see what you have to say about them.
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Post by Neichus Sat 2 Nov 2019 - 18:39

November 2nd: Retooled Ideas, Angelica Part 3

Facts of the Day 008

It begins with Bianchi.  In the original he is a nice guy.  He chats casually with Henrietta, apologizing that she has to be put through this.  Looking closer, one can see a ring on his finger, and several photographs of his family on his desk.  This is a man who sees in these girls his own children, and is trying to give them the best advice he can.  Sometimes it might be hard, as in the first image above, but he tries to follow it with kindly sentiments: 

Facts of the Day 009

All of this vanishes in the anime.  The minor chit-chat is removed, his internal laments erased.  He has no ring, no images of family on his desk.  And finally, when he tells Henrietta to control her emotions it simply stops there: 

Facts of the Day Cz5akHX

What is left is a man who looks on a crying and distressed child and simply tells her it would be best if she just stopped feeling... like he has.  Working at this place has robbed him of something, and when Angelica enters it becomes clear that his laughs were only for himself as a way to avoid the tragedy sitting in front of him.

(TSM: this is a rush job I'm doing for these facts.  I try not to advertise or pressure too much, but this far better on my site where I can give it the full verbage it requires.)
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Post by Neichus Sun 3 Nov 2019 - 20:43

November 3rd: Retooled Ideas, Angelica Part 4

Facts of the Day 0WqywnS

The seconds fare little better than Bianchi.  They make kindly comments, and at first seem like nice enough people.  But then the test again comes with Henrietta, and the knowledge that she is truly suffering (the manga tears rapidly dry up, the anime ones remain as Henrietta walks from the room).  Olga offers a single regretful comment... and then their attention is called back to the game: 

Facts of the Day MgcYDX9

We've seen this before, in an anime-only scene in Promessa where as Raballo struggled to decide to what was right for Claes they could only sit and comment about how "The MP is near his breaking point."  "Probably for the best, considering the business we're in."  Casually, like it's the weather. 

Facts of the Day XNBMSdS

These people are dead.  They look alive, but they're not.  All that are left are husks who sit and watch, knowing they once cared, but now have nothing left to do but burn their free time with games and use the smoke to hide before quietly filing out of the room. 

Facts of the Day PemiQWP

Combined with Marco's apathy and Jose's inaction in the face of Henrietta's suffering (she looks at him through the mirror in the anime), this sets the stage for Pasta, and why the fairly tale is so central.
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Post by Neichus Mon 4 Nov 2019 - 21:03

November 4th: Retooled Ideas, Angelica Part 5

Facts of the Day 6ZBxVDF


"In this kingdom there was a prince who loved pasta and he ate pasta everyday."

Now after all that setup, onto the story.  It begins with the Prince.  Marco had a good life; ability, health, and opportunity were his.  His first meeting with Patrizia has been changed to reflect this: 

Facts of the Day 005

In the anime he doesn't complain about the unfairness or try to act cocky or macho.  But importantly it retains his fond comments toward Patrizia; he can still keep sight of what's important even when bad things happen.  This is a good man.

"But there was only one fork in the whole kingdom, so the prince always had to eat pasta alone.  Even though the pasta was delicious, it was not fun to eat alone."

The second sentence is anime-original (I'll return to the first line later).  It is eventually reflected in Stella Cadente at the end, but for now it modifies the story crucially: the unfortunate part was that a lone human being cannot enjoy good fortune.  It has to be shared, and having found a Princess the outcome of such a story is only natural.  Through his benevolence she, too, will be happy: 

Facts of the Day KDRxeXX


Last edited by Neichus on Tue 5 Nov 2019 - 18:15; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Thescarredman Tue 5 Nov 2019 - 18:05

Tomorrow is gonna be gooood….
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Comments : .
Mario Bossi would make a better handler than Marco Toni. Come to think of it, so would Christiano.
.
Elizaveta didn't jump - she was pushed.
.
Sofia was pregnant. It would have been a boy.
.
John Doe faked his own death - twice.
.
Enrica taught Jose everything he knows about the night sky.

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Post by Neichus Tue 5 Nov 2019 - 21:11

November 5th: Retooled Ideas, Angelica Part 6

Yesterday I remarked that it was a shame that Marco was alone... and in the same post that I talked about Patrizia.  This is because she functions not as his partner but as his conscience and better half: 

Facts of the Day R0FZAKz

The first indication is when Bianchi mistakes Marco's story for hers, but where it becomes more clear is the second meeting with her: 

Facts of the Day 014

This scene follows on the exchange with Bianchi.  In the manga Marco just hasn't time to tell her, and is perhaps putting it off since he'll have to lie.  The scene unfolds with his deception, and that she's happy he got a job from "that nice doctor" and that since he'll be in Rome they can see each other any time.  The anime takes this substrate and modifies it: 

Facts of the Day BHEYTNN

Bianchi asks if Marco has talked to Patrizia yet in a guilty tone, and Marco replies with a quiet, "No... not yet..."  Their hunched bodies do them no favors; Marco has been avoiding Patrizia on purpose because he knows what he is involved in is wrong.  When we see Marco meeting with her he no longer faces her head on: 

Facts of the Day N740JQA

He can't look at his conscience anymore.  Here when she asks about his work and he tells her Bianchi got him in she blinks slowly in response: 

Facts of the Day 2mQjW1T

In this version, she/his conscience knows something is wrong, and the line where she praises Bianchi is gone.  When she asks him directly what he will be doing he turns away from her (and the camera) completely as he says he will be taking care of children: 

Facts of the Day CYQA3E0

As before, she replies, "That's great.  Now we can see each other all the time.  It's the perfect job for you!"  But notice, something is missing.  In the anime he never told her he was working in Rome.  This isn't about physical distance.  It is his conscience letting him know the truth: if he is truly caring for Angelica then his better half will never have to be far away.  And of course, like all good consciences she has a bite; this is the perfect job for a caring and honest man, just... like... him... 

Facts of the Day Nibznh8

(This probably wasn't quite what you expected today to be about TSM, but I'm getting to the rest of the story soon...)
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Post by Neichus Wed 6 Nov 2019 - 20:29

November 6th: Retooled Ideas, Angelica Part 7

Facts of the Day RFlKH4O

Priscilla: "Don't all fairy tales have a princess?"
Olga: "A princess kidnapped by a dragon or something..."

In the beginning the story had proceeded as it should.  The princess was sad and hurt and alone but the Prince was here now, taking care of her.  Now there is a new problem that must be recognized: the Princess has been captured by a dragon.  Princes ought to protect princesses from such horrible things happening to them.  It's only natural to recognize dragons being evil.  However, Bianchi is quick to offer an explanation: 

"The dragon that kidnapped the princess seems evil at first, but he just wanted a friend, like the prince.  How's that?"

Wouldn't it be best if the place that abducted Angelica was really only acting with good intent too?  Yes, that's for the best.  This is all about helping Angelica; everybody can tell themselves that this is a welfare agency.  Up in the balcony Georgio gripes: 

Facts of the Day QOIZlsg

"What the hell is that ex-elite public securities and Russian spy doing?  They should just remodel Angelica for combat and give us jobs already."

 It would seem that the dragon knows exactly why it's capturing princesses, and is not so enamored by her goodness as the Prince is, a reality that is becoming increasingly difficult to ignore... 

Facts of the Day 42fm4u5
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