Viola Case Alternatives

by Piero Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 16:58

The Viola case is a traditional method for GSGs to carry heavy weaponry, and they seem to work pretty well in this role. In theory at least you can fit some pretty big guns in a viola case, especially if you go for an oblong type rather than the more traditional sculpted type. There are a lot of folding or collapsible stock assault rifles and submachine guns which have folded/collapsed lengths of under thirty inchs.

However there are some guns which are too big to be carried in a viola case without major disassembly. Furthermore, viola cases can be out of place in certain settings or when carried by certain people. They also just don't fit some characters all that well. So I thought it might be interesting to take a look at alternatives to viola cases when it comes to GSGs carrying heavy weapons.

Personally, I've found that there are some good alternatives to viola cases as far as small automatic weapons are concerned. Gina, for instance, often carries a MP5K compact submachine gun in a large shoulder bag because it craws less attention than carrying a larger gun in a viola case. She can also take the shoulder bag with her during an attack, meaning that she has a convenient place to carry spare magazines and doesn't have to worry about recovering her carrying case later on. Sabina in my latest planned revision takes a somewhat similar approach except she uses a messenger bag and a Glock 18 machine pistol with an aftermarket shoulder stock. There's also a couple of my handlers who use briefcases to carry small submachine guns on occasion (or more than just occasionally, in the case of one very "hands on" handler) although those have the same major disadvantage as the larger viola cases -they're awkward to take with you during a moving firefight, so you need to worry about recovering them later and also how to carry spare magazines for the weapon once you've left the case behind.

I'd also heard is said that a fixed stock MP5 with the magazine removed will fit a tennis racket bag well, although I think the guy who did that did it more to protect the gun during transport then to try to conceal it. Laughing

I'm not sure any of my OCs will be using that method.

Anyone else's OCs have creative ways of transporting their big guns? I'd be particularly interested in how characters who have guns that are too big to fit in a viola case pull it off. I've thought of suitcases and even larger instrument cases (like guitar cases), anyone else got any ideas?

by Guest Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 18:13

While I do not have an OC I am considering having the girls use larger instrument cases like the bass or oboe cases for their weapons

by Awinnell Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 18:26

maybe you could try a fishing rod bag

Viola Case Alternatives Fishin10

BTI-LY-M005

192*33*11cm

600D polyester with PVC backing

Soft liner inside

Main compartments can hold 6 rods

One outer pocket

Padded shoulder strap

by Guest Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 19:00

genius

by **ElfenMagix** Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 19:39

The old fashion Tommy Gun in a modern violin case.
Viola Case Alternatives Violincase

by **Nachtsider** Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 19:53

I want to see a GSG with a tuba case. She could hide all kinds of shit in there, man.

by Professor Voodoo Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 20:19

Awinnell wrote:maybe you could try a fishing rod bag

Clever, but...

Padania Agent: Hey...why's that girl carrying a fishing rod bag in the middle or Rome?

Kind of like the long coat in the middle of summer, it could act as a give-away.

by **Kiskaloo** Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 20:27

Dress in a Courier outfit and carry a map case.

by Alfisti Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 22:58

Like CI said: just find a larger instrument (I was thinking cello... since, as far as I can tell, every man and his dog plays one). I guess a duffel bag could always be an alternative as well... glue some thick foam to the sides to give it some volume and hide the gun shape. The modern duffel can be pretty stylish, or even apply the same theory to a school sports bag.

by Guest Sat 21 Apr 2012 - 23:04

Nice one alfisti and some of those bags can be gigantic

by **boomer_gonz** Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 0:41

crazyidiot78 wrote:Nice one alfisti and some of those bags can be gigantic

Alpha:

by Lyndist Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 0:50

A sports bag and some sports clothing may do the trick -they are also very lightweight and durable , has many pockets - very useful to carry small things like ammunition , jackknife and like that

by Three Dog Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 5:39

I just go with a guitar or duffel bag whnever my OCs need to carry something big. However, I do have Mercedes use a laptop bag to carry her Skorpions, because she could easily pass for a student studying abroad. I'm not to sure how big the guns are in reality but in my own laptop bag i've managed to fir four DVDs (in thier cases) two laptops and a 200pg book, so they should be able to hold a pair of SMGs/Machine Pistols (I know there is some debate as to which the Skorpion is so I put them both), a number of spare magazinse and a couple of flash grenades. Or remove one of the guns and put a lpatop in as well for hacking purposes.

Professor Voodoo wrote:
Awinnell wrote:maybe you could try a fishing rod bag
Clever, but...

Padania Agent: Hey...why's that girl carrying a fishing rod bag in the middle or Rome?

Kind of like the long coat in the middle of summer, it could act as a give-away.

Other Padania Agent: That's like the forteenth today. There's almost as many blokes wearing long black coats even though it's summer. You think something's up?
Padania Agent: Nah, do you see any little girls with violin cases? No? Then we're good.

by Awinnell Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 6:29

Rome has a large fishing community

http://rome.angloinfo.com/information/17/fishing.asp

http://www.romebassfishing.com/eng/eng_ind.htm

by Three Dog Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 6:33

Awinnell wrote:Rome has a large fishing community

So if we go to Rome and see lots of children carrying around fishing rod cases we shouldn't get sus? Even in school hours?

by Awinnell Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 6:36

any child wandering around during school hours is suspect ,but given the number of Romanian and Albanian beggars/pickpockets that wander around Rome random encounters with kids are commonplace

by Three Dog Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 6:40

Awinnell wrote:any child wandering around during school hours is suspect ,but given the number of Romanian and Albanian beggars/pickpockets that wander around Rome random encounters with kids are commonplace

Beggars with expensive fishing bags or Amati instrumant cases? Must be an awfully good pickpocket Viola Case Alternatives 735198

. I'd better keep an eye on my wallet... Dman, it's gone! They are good, got me all the way over here in Australia Viola Case Alternatives 249988

.

by Piero Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 16:56

The area I have the biggest problem is probably sharpshooting rifles. Diana's G3-SG/1 is fairly short, but even its over forty inches in length. She'd need to remove the buttstock to get it into a viola case, and with a long spring attached to that part and the recoil buffer likely going back into it during operation, I'm not keen on that idea. I suppose a guitar case might work if the weapon was stored at a slight angle.

Gina's WA-2000 is a bullpup and less than thirty six inches in length, but it has its own challenges due to it's bulky shape. I'm hoping to come up with an efficiently size option or carrying that one.

The PGM Hecate II is designed for the stock to be easily removed and reattached, but even without the stock it's about 45 inches long. But then it fires .50 rounds, so of course it's huge.

Interestingly enough the AR-10 type rifles a few of my OCs use look like they might be among the easiest to deal with -the reason being that you can quickly seperate the upper and lower receivers on one of those. This is a AR-15 carbine rather than a AR-10 in sharpshooting configuration, but I think it demonstrates the basic concept of seperating the upper and lower pieces for compact transport: https://2img.net/h/i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee21/dannylanee/Danny/DSC00829.jpg

by Alfisti Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 18:45

Well, if you're looking for something long and skinny, there's always model aeroplane bags (might be one for the handler to carry in public though).

Viola Case Alternatives Backpack_back

by MP5 Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 19:31

I have Allison carrying her Tavor in a padded Guitar case, and it actually is (on other occasions) the case for her Ferrari edition Gibson Les Paul. Another idea could possibly be the 'El Mariachi' approach and have a hard guitar case with faux guitar that opens away to reveal the portable arsenal underneath.

by sdp2501 Mon 23 Apr 2012 - 15:13

A hobby case especialy the larger ones could be used.

by Awinnell Thu 26 Apr 2012 - 8:45

Gator gig bag ,designed for extreme shaped guitars

Viola Case Alternatives Gator_10

by John_234 Wed 13 Jun 2012 - 5:33

Bit of an interesting conversation for me. When I played viola for a school orchestra, I had a case so cumbersome and heavy it might as well have been a gun case.

Many SMGs / PDWs have specialized slings or shoulder holsters designed to carry them - the TMP, MP5 series and such come to mind. A person with a coat who is reasonably tall can conceal a lot of things.

I mean, you guys have seen Public Enemies, right? A guy hides a freaking Browning Automatic Rifle under a trenchcoat, with just the stock sawed down. Or HEAT. They actually tried a rehearsal of the robbery scene without all the fancy film stuff, and not a single member was caught looking suspicious. Remember that all of them were carrying 10.5'' M4s, one of them even having a Galil.

I would say that the instrument case idea is probably more a stylistic choice in GSG than a strictly practical one. It's rare an assassination needs more than a pistol or SMG, maybe a rifle from a pretty good range, so I doubt you'd be smuggling AK-47s into a house to shoot someone (though totally feasible!)

Luce and Amsel generally pose as feds or have enough paperwork not to care, so they end up using rifle bags or large pelican cases. I suppose if necessary Amsel could have a PDR in a shoulder holster, and Luce could have one in a laptop or gym bag. The FMG-9 is also useful for this role, considering it looks more or less like a laptop battery if you remove the accessories.

by Il Direttore Wed 4 Jul 2012 - 2:26

Suit case. Seriously.

I mean, obviously it's not going to work for kids who need to switch from disguise to combat in less than ten milliseconds (ref: Episode One, Season One), but for the sharpshooters...

Padania Agent: Why's that kid have a suitcase.
Padania Agent 2: Idiota! That's obviously a tourist. Stop being so paranoid.

Later: *ka-KOW*... *ka-KOW*....

by Three Dog Wed 4 Jul 2012 - 2:33

Have we really not said suitcase yet?! Viola Case Alternatives 249988

What is wrong with us. Anyway, sounds resonabole enough. Especaily if it's one of those wheelie ones with a carry handle, and it's pink.

by Il Direttore Wed 4 Jul 2012 - 2:45

Oh yeah, definitely. Or if you get one of those really big multi-week bags that are like four or five feet tall and a foot and a half wide? You could stick an AT4 or Carl Gustav in there....

Alternatively: Mortar, .50 cal machine gun, .30 cal machine gun, Fully Automatic Grenade Launcher, RPG-7, RPG-4, minigun...

Holy shit we could fit a partially disassembled minigun in a large suitcase!! That's it, I'm officially calling that for an OC at some point in the future.

by Three Dog Wed 4 Jul 2012 - 2:54

El_Conservatore wrote:Oh yeah, definitely. Or if you get one of those really big multi-week bags that are like four or five feet tall and a foot and a half wide? You could stick an AT4 or Carl Gustav in there....

Alternatively: Mortar, .50 cal machine gun, .30 cal machine gun, Fully Automatic Grenade Launcher, RPG-7, RPG-4, minigun...

Holy shit we could fit a partially disassembled minigun in a large suitcase!! That's it, I'm officially calling that for an OC at some point in the future.

Firstly: When are the cyborgs going to need a minigun?! Do you plan to have the Chinese invade and the cyborgs are the last line of defense?! Are you invading germany?! WHAT?!!!

Secondly: Fuck, I wanted that idea.

by Alfisti Wed 4 Jul 2012 - 4:31

Oddly enough, the use of a suitcase to transport weapons crops up in the next chapter of J+M... though not exactly of the minigun magnitude.

by Il Direttore Wed 4 Jul 2012 - 5:00

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:
El_Conservatore wrote:Oh yeah, definitely. Or if you get one of those really big multi-week bags that are like four or five feet tall and a foot and a half wide? You could stick an AT4 or Carl Gustav in there....

Alternatively: Mortar, .50 cal machine gun, .30 cal machine gun, Fully Automatic Grenade Launcher, RPG-7, RPG-4, minigun...

Holy shit we could fit a partially disassembled minigun in a large suitcase!! That's it, I'm officially calling that for an OC at some point in the future.

Firstly: When are the cyborgs going to need a minigun?! Do you plan to have the Chinese invade and the cyborgs are the last line of defense?! Are you invading germany?! WHAT?!!!

Secondly: Fuck, I wanted that idea.

1. More Dakka is always Good Dakka. And besides, the P90 is BASICALLY a handheld minigun that fires a 5.7 round. I can imagine the Jose/Henrietta and/or Hilshire/Triela fratelli planning an assault and having a minigun as fire support. Just have the minigun zip a burst through each floor at about chest level, then go in to mop up. Simple and easy, if not exactly clean.

2. Viola Case Alternatives 1935963106

*nyehhhhhh*

by Three Dog Wed 4 Jul 2012 - 5:06

El_Conservatore wrote:
Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:
El_Conservatore wrote:Oh yeah, definitely. Or if you get one of those really big multi-week bags that are like four or five feet tall and a foot and a half wide? You could stick an AT4 or Carl Gustav in there....

Alternatively: Mortar, .50 cal machine gun, .30 cal machine gun, Fully Automatic Grenade Launcher, RPG-7, RPG-4, minigun...

Holy shit we could fit a partially disassembled minigun in a large suitcase!! That's it, I'm officially calling that for an OC at some point in the future.

Firstly: When are the cyborgs going to need a minigun?! Do you plan to have the Chinese invade and the cyborgs are the last line of defense?! Are you invading germany?! WHAT?!!!

Secondly: Fuck, I wanted that idea.

1. More Dakka is always Good Dakka. And besides, the P90 is BASICALLY a handheld minigun that fires a 5.7 round. I can imagine the Jose/Henrietta and/or Hilshire/Triela fratelli planning an assault and having a minigun as fire support. Just have the minigun zip a burst through each floor at about chest level, then go in to mop up. Simple and easy, if not exactly clean.

2. *nyehhhhhh*

1. P90 is NOT a tiny minigun. MAC 10 or MAC 11 on the other heand Viola Case Alternatives 817766

. And if you need high firepower support, Vulcan (7.62mm) or GUA-8(30mm)

2. this isn't over Viola Case Alternatives 423829

by Il Direttore Wed 4 Jul 2012 - 5:09

M61 Vulcan refers specifically to the 20mm Aircraft Cannon, not the 7.62 weapon. While I would definitely prefer to have the Vulcan as my backup, this is probably too conspicuous for urban operations. P90 IS a tiny minigun, as it operates at a ridiculous rate of fire but is still actually useful, whereas MAC10/MAC11 (from my observation on youtube, granted) tends to have a lot more climb and, therefore, less utility.

by Three Dog Wed 4 Jul 2012 - 5:12

El_Conservatore wrote:M61 Vulcan refers specifically to the 20mm Aircraft Cannon, not the 7.62 weapon. While I would definitely prefer to have the Vulcan as my backup, this is probably too conspicuous for urban operations. P90 IS a tiny minigun, as it operates at a ridiculous rate of fire but is still actually useful, whereas MAC10/MAC11 (from my observation on youtube, granted) tends to have a lot more climb and, therefore, less utility.

Huh, so I was wrong again. I'm not to surprised.

by Il Direttore Wed 4 Jul 2012 - 5:18

Meh. Happens to me too. Wikipedia is your friend in all things.

by John_234 Wed 4 Jul 2012 - 5:21

Well the only real case that screams "gun" is a pelican case or other plastic-bodied thing.

The P90 is not a minigun. It's more like a Mac 11 with a big mag. Low recoil, low powered, clumsy reload Razz

Any of the miniguns that we actually use would not be easy to assemble, kicks too hard for a grown man to fire accurately and uses up more ammo than one could carry in a sane concealable object. If you want bullet hose I'd use an MG-3.

by Il Direttore Wed 4 Jul 2012 - 10:46

OOooh, I forgot the MG3 existed. Yeah, that'd be nice. Are there any concerns about accuracy with the MG3? On the one hand, you're not going to be using it from anything resembling long range, but it is rather irritating when you can't hit the target.

And the discussion about the P90 being a minigun was, I believe, more of an exercise in humor than it was in seriousness.

by **Nachtsider** Wed 4 Jul 2012 - 18:58

The MAC fucking sucks. Never consider it as a weapon. Never.

by FearTheLASERFACE Wed 4 Jul 2012 - 20:16

Hey guys, how about this thing?

H&K MP5K Briefcase

You can even fire it when its still in the briefcase!

by Il Direttore Wed 4 Jul 2012 - 20:50

Triela's new backup weapon?

Hilshire: Triela, for this mission you're going to have to pretend to be my diminutive administrative assistant.

Triela: I'm not THAT short!

Hilshire: Yes you are. For the mission, Q-branch whipped up this for you. *hands over MP5 Briefcase* If we get attacked, you can fire from the briefcase and still maintain your cover (mostly).

by John_234 Wed 4 Jul 2012 - 22:30

Oh yeah, I realize the joke about the P90. I just can't help but take a shot at it when I can xD I think it's hilariously overused. That said, certain configurations of the MAC series aren't that bad... I mean, a storm of .45 ACP flying into even a cyborg is going to cause pain.

The MG3 with a good gunner taking their time is accurate out to about nine-hundred meters, like most other GPMGs. It does eat up ammo and barrels, though. Personally, I'd use a M60E4, Mk48 or FN MAG if I went with European, or a PK series with East Bloc. Low rate of fire means your ammunition lasts longer and the barrels take longer to overheat. Amsel and Luce DO use the MG-3 on vehicular mounts, or more specifically the MG-42 (8mm Mauser can hit pretty hard.)

As for a suitcase gun, I find a gun built into a suitcase a little bit academic. I'd much rather have a low-recoil, stocked weapon that I can pull out of it in a second or two. Once you fire that weapon, your cover is gone. Using a suitcase just means its harder to shoot at that point.

by Il Direttore Wed 4 Jul 2012 - 22:35

M60's ROF might be a bit slow though. Although I did use it to snipe people on Battlefield 2. That was fun.

And yes I know that video games aren't a good reference for guns. I'm just saying that it was really fun sniping people with a digital M60.

by John_234 Wed 4 Jul 2012 - 23:54

Eight rounds a second is still plenty, IMHO. The M60E4 is used by US special forces today over the M240 primarily because its light.

by Il Direttore Wed 4 Jul 2012 - 23:56

If video games are even remotely accurate, the M240 is also a BITCH to reload.

by Officer_Charon Thu 5 Jul 2012 - 0:24

It can be, but really, it's about the same as the SAW. A trained gunner under optimal conditions can have the old box clear, sweep brass, slap the new box i, and fully loaded in about 5 seconds or less.

Note I said "optimal."

by Il Direttore Thu 5 Jul 2012 - 0:25

So basically: "When not being shot at in the middle of a jungle/desert/field/city."

by John_234 Thu 5 Jul 2012 - 2:47

Nah. The M240 is reloaded the same as virtually every other belt fed machine gun out there - which various militaries have been using in less than ideal settings since world war one. Yes, they're slow to reload. But this doesn't counter the fact that they're an essential part of an infantry unit. A small summary of how to reload basic LMGs:

M60
Pull charging lever, push forward. Open top. Remove belt and any box. Put on new box. Pull on belt. Slap down cover.

M240 / FN MAG
Pull charging lever, push forward. Open top. Remove belt and any box. Put on new box. Pull on belt. Slap down cover.

M249
Pull charging lever, push forward. Open top. Remove belt and any box. Put on new box. Pull on belt. Slap down cover.

MG-42 / MG3
Open top. Remove belt and any box. Put on new box. Pull on belt. Slap down cover. Pull charging lever, push forward.

M2
Open top. Remove belt and any box. Put on new box. Pull on belt. Slap down cover. Pull charging lever, push forward.

PKM
Open top. Remove belt and any box. Put on new box. Pull on belt. Slap down cover. Pull charging lever.

DsKh
Open top. Remove belt and any box. Put on new box. Pull on belt. Slap down cover. Pull charging lever.

Most guns have a belt on the left, charging handle on the right. The PKM has both on the right. An RPK, MG-36 or IAR has a standard magwell so you can reload somewhat like a rifle. The American MGs and the MAG have similar barrel changes using a lever. The MG3's barrel assembly slides to the side. But the M240 isn't significantly slower than most machine guns. Small units like special forces tend to have a lot of belt feds to maximize the volume of fire downrange. To them, the volume of fire alone outweighs all disadvantages of the machine gun. There are LMGs in Amsel and Luce's kits.

by Alfisti Thu 5 Jul 2012 - 7:05

I sort of get the impression that the idea behind "MP5 in a briefcase" is to send enough metal flying in the general direction of the badguys to keep their heads down, long enough for your own people to get some more effective weapons out...

by Awinnell Thu 5 Jul 2012 - 10:20

please drool

Caliber

.338 Norma Magnum / 8.6x64
Weight

10.9 kg / 24 lbs (gun with bipod) + 5.2 kg / 11.5 lbs (M192 tripod)
Overall length

1244 mm / 49”
Barrel length

609 mm / 24”
Cyclic rate of fire

500 rounds per minute
Feed and capacity

Belt

Lightweight Medium Machine Gun (LWMMG) is the new, prototype weapon developed by US defense industry giant General Dynamics. LWMMG was first displayed to industry specialists during NDIA conference in May, 2012. It is yet to be seen if the weapon will live to expectations, and it seems that it has a long way forward for possible adoption.

The concept of the Lightweight Medium Machine Gun is apparently based on the current US Army doctrine for “overmatching capabilities”, requiring new weapons to provide more effect than weapons of its adversaries. In this particular case, LWMMG is to overmatch small arms (7,62mm rifles and machine gun), widely employed by insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan. Until now, small units of US Armed forces had small arms (rifles and general purpose machine guns) with more or less matching capabilities in terms of range and lethality (hitting power).

338 Norma Magnum cartridge is a recent development. It has evolved from .338 Lapua Magnum cartridge by shortening the case and slightly altering its shape, to ensure same overall length as .338LM with longer heavier bullets with outstanding ballistic properties. In its basic form, .338 NM cartridge, when fired from LWMMG, launches very low drag sierra MatchKing bullet weighting 19.44 gram (300 grains) at 808 m/s (2650 fps), with muzzle energy in excess of 6300 Joules (4600 ft-lbs).

The LWMMG offers noticeable increase in terms of range (from about 800 meters for 7,62mm GPMG such as M240 or PKM up to 1700 meters for LWMMG) and lethality. Terminal energy of the bullet at 1000 meters range for .338NM bullet fired from LWMMG is almost 4 times higher than energy of the 7,62mm bullet fired from M240. It must be noted that Lightweight Medium Machine Gun (LWMMG) is intended for many different applications, including use by dismounted / foot soldiers. The gun itself is relatively light, and actually is lighter than 7,62mm M240B machine gun by about 3 pounds / 1.3 kg. The key issue is ammunition, as .338NM cartridge is twice as heavy compared to 7,62x51 NATO cartridge (45,5 g / 702 grs for .338 compared to 24 g / 370 grs for 7,62). Links for LWMMG also are twice as heavy compared to standard M13 7,62 NATO links (8 gram vs. 4 gram). To make a comparison, .338 LWMMG with one minute worth of ammo for sustained fire (500 rounds in belts) has total weight of 37,6 kg, while M240B with one minute worth of ammo (800 rounds in belts) has total weight of 34,4 kg.

Lightweight Medium Machine Gun (LWMMG) is gas operated weapon that fires from open bolt. It employs more or less conventional rotary bolt locking and long stroke gas piston, located below the barrel. cooled barrel

by John_234 Thu 5 Jul 2012 - 18:08

Alfisti wrote:I sort of get the impression that the idea behind "MP5 in a briefcase" is to send enough metal flying in the general direction of the badguys to keep their heads down, long enough for your own people to get some more effective weapons out...

Yeah, but there's a reason it's never been that popular, especially when the MP5K can be worn in a shoulder holster under a jacket.

by Three Dog Thu 5 Jul 2012 - 20:22

Awinnell wrote:please drool

Drooling... Viola Case Alternatives 322112

by John_234 Thu 5 Jul 2012 - 21:01

Considering .338 Lapua Mag costs as much per bullet as .50 BMG, that thing must be ungodly expensive to train on.

Luce doesn't use LMGs, but Amsel has a M249 variant in 6.5 MPC.

by Sponsored content

Caliber	.338 Norma Magnum / 8.6x64
Weight	10.9 kg / 24 lbs (gun with bipod) + 5.2 kg / 11.5 lbs (M192 tripod)
Overall length	1244 mm / 49”
Barrel length	609 mm / 24”
Cyclic rate of fire	500 rounds per minute
Feed and capacity	Belt