Whose OC will use this M4 modiified?

by **emperor** Fri 10 Oct 2008 - 4:19

It's lovely,is it?

Whose OC will use this M4 modiified? 592421

by **Nachtsider** Fri 10 Oct 2008 - 4:29

I've drawn one of my OCs (Cosette) with an M4. Still not sure if this will be her signature weapon, though.

The Childville boys probably use M4s a lot, given that the IDF is rotten with those things. But I haven't drawn any pictures or written any stories featuring those. Yet.

by **Kiskaloo** Fri 10 Oct 2008 - 11:26

Michele is an HK-only kind of guy and that prejudice carries over to Kara. Smile

by **boomer_gonz** Fri 10 Oct 2008 - 12:11

Alpha would use it, but only in an OSP manner.

by **ElfenMagix** Fri 10 Oct 2008 - 21:16

Fernando would have to check it out and compare it to the M16 w/grenade launcher to see how it compares... Yes... I know I know... but one can use the excuse to fire a few rounds before taking it home...

by **emperor** Tue 14 Oct 2008 - 3:34

boomer_gonz wrote:Alpha would use it, but only in an OSP manner.

OSP manner?

by **boomer_gonz** Tue 14 Oct 2008 - 4:24

OSP = On Sight Procurement

Should Alpha run out of ammo or lose his weapons somehow, he's not above picking off the fallen.

His primary weapon is his G3A4, ever since the end of his indenture.

by **Tommygunner70** Tue 14 Oct 2008 - 9:44

My Handler Ronaldo would use it I guess...
But only if:

He runs out of bullets for his pistols
The target is too far away to hit with pistols
Its the is the only weapon he can get his hands on when in a fire fight.

by Guest Mon 20 Oct 2008 - 10:27

That's a nice weapon. Frederick would use almost anything he can get his hands on!

Anna is a more agile and compact character, so she'll stick with small SMGs, Gewehr's long range specialist...

...and maybe Edward would use it. But of course, he's not too fond of the 5.56 cartridge.

On the other hand, Frederick would discard the weapon if he finds something like an StG44, AK47, or M16. M4's too short for him; I mean, doesn't feel like a weapon to him.

by Guest Wed 8 Jul 2009 - 18:03

Well the number of OCs and other characters that use this is way too much and it just does not make it feel anything special. Now look at my guns and see if anyone else uses them! Very Happy

.

Over used guns:

*H&k MK23 (Or ciivilian Mark 23).
*AK47 and AK74 also the AKM, AKS, AKS74U and others execpt for my Max's AK104 and his other AK10X variants.
*H&K USP (In any caliber).
*H&K MP5 (Exept for the MK5-10 wich is the 10mm version of the MP5 or the MP5-40 in .40 caliber).
*Desert Eagles (God I hate thouse things!).
*M4-M16s.

And others.

NOTE: I was not tryng to be an asshole in the begining!.

by **Kiskaloo** Wed 8 Jul 2009 - 18:25

SWA handlers and cyborgs are professionals and professionals use Heckler & Koch so what did you expect? Wink

by Guest Wed 8 Jul 2009 - 18:36

Kiskaloo wrote:SWA handlers and cyborgs are professionals and professionals use Heckler & Koch so what did you expect?

I have fired H&K guns and really they are nothing special. As for profesional most of the guns they use are just influenced by popular culture. Henrietta uses a W2000 rifle wich in reality there are only 12 existing units and all of them are owned by the same guys that made them becuase these rifles are not that accurate and cost a lot of money.

Triela uses a 1897 Wincherster shotgun wich contrary to popular belife her model of shotgun is not the "Trench gun" model but insted is just another 1897 civilian model.

Claes uses a H&K VP7 wich are rare and jam a lot!. If fired when raining the gun will jam if it gets even one drop of water in the breach.

by **Kiskaloo** Wed 8 Jul 2009 - 18:41

I've used H&K most of my life and they have yet to let me down, even when my life depended on it. *shrug*

by MikhailN Wed 8 Jul 2009 - 18:44

Resent anime fan wrote:Triela uses a 1897 Wincherster shotgun wich contrary to popular belife her model of shotgun is not the "Trench gun" model but insted is just another 1897 civilian model.

Err actually it is the famous Trench Gun. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1897

The one Triela uses has the perforated heat shield and an attachment for a bayonet. Just curious but would a civilian weapon have an attachment for a bayonet?

by **rusty-spring** Wed 8 Jul 2009 - 18:46

Gun brands are all preference anyways. If someone wants to roll around with a S&W 500 as his sidearm, so be it - I'd call him crazy, but it's a choice, lol.

by MikhailN Wed 8 Jul 2009 - 18:56

rusty-spring wrote:Gun brands are all preference anyways. If someone wants to roll around with a S&W 500 as his sidearm, so be it - I'd call him crazy, but it's a choice, lol.

Brands are just the fancy name you put on the side of the gun. The more important thing is what the weapon was designed for.

The reason why H&K weapons are used by professionals is because they're designed for their use. The famed MP5 was designed for reliability, maneuverability etc. In short, close quarter fighting. H&K produces this kind of weapons because there was a great demand for it (remember Germany was just reeling from the Munich Massacre) so you've got stuff like PSG1 that was designed specifically for police work

by Guest Wed 8 Jul 2009 - 19:02

Kiskaloo wrote:I've used H&K most of my life and they have yet to let me down, even when my life depended on it. *shrug*

Well good for you (I'm not tryng to be an asshole I'm really happy about it) but I dont exactly love them becuase they feel strange (mostly becuase I'm not the tipe of guy that likes plastics in my guns) but hey if it works for you then great.

by Guest Wed 8 Jul 2009 - 19:05

MikhailN wrote:
Resent anime fan wrote:Triela uses a 1897 Wincherster shotgun wich contrary to popular belife her model of shotgun is not the "Trench gun" model but insted is just another 1897 civilian model.
Err actually it is the famous Trench Gun. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1897

The one Triela uses has the perforated heat shield and an attachment for a bayonet. Just curious but would a civilian weapon have an attachment for a bayonet?

Woops! got confused with another anime gun sorry! it is a trench gun. But my M1 carbine does have a heat shield and a bayonet (more like butter knife but...its still a bayonet.) and no the M1 I have is not military surplus.

by Guest Wed 8 Jul 2009 - 19:06

MikhailN wrote:
rusty-spring wrote:Gun brands are all preference anyways. If someone wants to roll around with a S&W 500 as his sidearm, so be it - I'd call him crazy, but it's a choice, lol.
Brands are just the fancy name you put on the side of the gun. The more important thing is what the weapon was designed for.

The reason why H&K weapons are used by professionals is because they're designed for their use. The famed MP5 was designed for reliability, maneuverability etc. In short, close quarter fighting. H&K produces this kind of weapons because there was a great demand for it (remember Germany was just reeling from the Munich Massacre) so you've got stuff like PSG1 that was designed specifically for police work

Brand does have to do with performace becuase many manufacturuers suck at making firearms while others are better (like my dad he is a S&W fan to death).

by MikhailN Wed 8 Jul 2009 - 19:17

Resent anime fan wrote:
MikhailN wrote:
rusty-spring wrote:Gun brands are all preference anyways. If someone wants to roll around with a S&W 500 as his sidearm, so be it - I'd call him crazy, but it's a choice, lol.
Brands are just the fancy name you put on the side of the gun. The more important thing is what the weapon was designed for.

The reason why H&K weapons are used by professionals is because they're designed for their use. The famed MP5 was designed for reliability, maneuverability etc. In short, close quarter fighting. H&K produces this kind of weapons because there was a great demand for it (remember Germany was just reeling from the Munich Massacre) so you've got stuff like PSG1 that was designed specifically for police work

Brand does have to do with performace becuase many manufacturuers suck at making firearms while others are better (like my dad he is a S&W fan to death).

Well, I can't really argue with that because manufacturers have their own quirks. However, once you're familiar with the gun these quirks are insignificant.

by Piero Thu 9 Jul 2009 - 1:21

I can kind of understand the issues with a Hollywood hand cannon like the Desert Eagle, but what's wrong with equipping a character with something practical like an MP-5? There's generally a reason common guns are common. Personally, I'd say it makes more sense to use a common weapon like that then something oddball that probably isn't in the agency supply chain (especially if the more common weapon is something the character would have previous experience with). Why use an exotic weapon when something more typical will do the job well with a lot less hassle?

Of course, this is coming from a guy whose first OC handler uses a Manurhin MR-73 revolver... (the justification being that he's a former GIS operator, and developed a liking for the weapon when cross training with the French GIGN. Plus, he's an expert marksman, and the MR-73 is one of the most accurate service sidearms out there).

Still, if seems to me that there's something to be said for moderation when it comes to the amount of exotic gear characters are using. Some variety is nice, but I think it's possible to hit an overload level.

by Guest Thu 9 Jul 2009 - 12:32

Piero wrote:I can kind of understand the issues with a Hollywood hand cannon like the Desert Eagle, but what's wrong with equipping a character with something practical like an MP-5? There's generally a reason common guns are common. Personally, I'd say it makes more sense to use a common weapon like that then something oddball that probably isn't in the agency supply chain (especially if the more common weapon is something the character would have previous experience with). Why use an exotic weapon when something more typical will do the job well with a lot less hassle?

Of course, this is coming from a guy whose first OC handler uses a Manurhin MR-73 revolver... (the justification being that he's a former GIS operator, and developed a liking for the weapon when cross training with the French GIGN. Plus, he's an expert marksman, and the MR-73 is one of the most accurate service sidearms out there).

Still, if seems to me that there's something to be said for moderation when it comes to the amount of exotic gear characters are using. Some variety is nice, but I think it's possible to hit an overload level.

think you hit it dead-on. Can you tell me what tipe of revolver is the Manurhin MR-73 revolver? and what caliber is it?.

Well I do admit having some oddball guns for my character (the .475 caliber Wieldy and the AMT Automag in the .44 Automag cartrige but that one has a lot less recoil than most people think).

Also I'm not talking about caliber, I'mtalking about originality becuase I see that people use the same guns over and over again and it is boring!.

by MikhailN Thu 9 Jul 2009 - 16:49

Resent anime fan wrote:think you hit it dead-on. Can you tell me what tipe of revolver is the Manurhin MR-73 revolver? and what caliber is it?.

Well I do admit having some oddball guns for my character (the .475 caliber Wieldy and the AMT Automag in the .44 Automag cartrige but that one has a lot less recoil than most people think).

Also I'm not talking about caliber, I'mtalking about originality becuase I see that people use the same guns over and over again and it is boring!.

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg66-e.htm and have fun with this.

Oddball guns? Sometimes if a gun is too popular it begins to suffer from the effects of mass-production. That's why some of the craziest guns are oddball. Daniela uses the DSR1 and MP7 so you're not alone in the oddball gun department.

Then again, some guns are oddball for a very good reason. http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn40-e.htm . This sniper rifle is a joke. 2+MOA for a sniper rifle? Guh?

Even assault rifles are more accurate

by Guest Thu 9 Jul 2009 - 20:48

MikhailN wrote:
Resent anime fan wrote:think you hit it dead-on. Can you tell me what tipe of revolver is the Manurhin MR-73 revolver? and what caliber is it?.

Well I do admit having some oddball guns for my character (the .475 caliber Wieldy and the AMT Automag in the .44 Automag cartrige but that one has a lot less recoil than most people think).

Also I'm not talking about caliber, I'mtalking about originality becuase I see that people use the same guns over and over again and it is boring!.

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg66-e.htm and have fun with this.

Oddball guns? Sometimes if a gun is too popular it begins to suffer from the effects of mass-production. That's why some of the craziest guns are oddball. Daniela uses the DSR1 and MP7 so you're not alone in the oddball gun department.

Then again, some guns are oddball for a very good reason. http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn40-e.htm . This sniper rifle is a joke. 2+MOA for a sniper rifle? Even assault rifles are more accurate

Oh shit! now I remmember that revolver! I shot one wich had a big ass grip (competition model probably) in 9mm, very nice pointability and smooth (although long) triger pull.

Well I meant odball in caliber (the MP7 is oddball though) the DSR-1 was actualy my characters sniper rifle too but I changed it later on. The SSG-82 does look like a good base to start a .22LR caliber rifle but its not oddbal since it uses the 5.45x39mm and that can be found easily.

by Piero Fri 10 Jul 2009 - 1:09

MikhailN wrote:
Then again, some guns are oddball for a very good reason. http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn40-e.htm . This sniper rifle is a joke. 2+MOA for a sniper rifle? Even assault rifles are more accurate

That thing drew my curiosity due to how much of an oddity it is. There is someone who claims to have gotten one of those to shoot 1/2 to 3/4 inch groups with handloaded ammunition, so perhaps it has greater accuracy potential then it's given credit for (this was just a message board post, but then Modern Firearms isn't exactly the most credible source out there either). Of course, there's still the question of why the heck the thing ever existed... why make a bolt action sniper rifle that fires such a weak round? Actually, one of the biggest mysteries surrounding the weapon seems to be the question of what the hell it was actually intended for. There are at least two theories, but neither one seems that solid.

by **Kiskaloo** Fri 10 Jul 2009 - 1:17

Maybe they used it to shoot people going over The Wall. You would not want stray rounds taking somebody out in West Berlin and causing a huge diplomatic row.

by MikhailN Fri 10 Jul 2009 - 1:19

Piero wrote:
MikhailN wrote:
Then again, some guns are oddball for a very good reason. http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn40-e.htm . This sniper rifle is a joke. 2+MOA for a sniper rifle? Even assault rifles are more accurate

That thing drew my curiosity due to how much of an oddity it is. There is someone who claims to have gotten one of those to shoot 1/2 to 3/4 inch groups with handloaded ammunition, so perhaps it has greater accuracy potential then it's given credit for (this was just a message board post, but then Modern Firearms isn't exactly the most credible source out there either). Of course, there's still the question of why the heck the thing ever existed... why make a bolt action sniper rifle that fires such a weak round? Actually, one of the biggest mysteries surrounding the weapon seems to be the question of what the hell it was actually intended for. There are at least two theories, but neither one seems that solid.

This was used back during post WWII Germany where they really didn't want to be seen as re-arming or being aggressive. So if you look back, weapons used during that period were either military surpluses or super lousy guns like this. Besides if the guy aims for a centre of mass shot 2 MOA isn't an issue. Germany underwent a change after the Munich Olympics massacre. More funds were fed into weapons research and there was this demand for weapons that are accurate and reliable. That's where the PSG1 and MP5 come in

Of course today the requirements are changing where they demand a reliable sniper rifle that is small enough to sneak into tight corners (especially in urban warfare) and yet accurate enough for use by the police. That's where the DSR1 comes in

by Piero Fri 10 Jul 2009 - 1:30

Except this particular weapon is East German, chambered in the 5.45x39mm round, and apparently built in the 80s (though how reliable the last fact is, who knows). I'd tend to find Kiskaloo's theory more credible, although there are counters to that as well. From another forum:

HDR, supposedly that's the intended purpose of the weapon. Honetly
though, I've never had official references to that assumption.
Incidently I have considerable first hand experience with the GT der
DDR. At the time of the collapse I wa the Commander of an organization
that conduscted all debriefings of refugees and escapees (to include GT
personnel) into West Berlin. We routinely debriefed the GT troops on
their Order of Battle (OB), force modernization efforts, relationship
to the NVA (Nationale Volks Armee - Military) and of course, to the MfS
(Minsterium fuer Staatssicherheit - Ministery for State Security - i.e.
"Stasi")and MdI ((Ministerium des Innern -- Ministry of the Interior -
i.e. Volkspolizei). Never once did we encounter a reference to the
"SSG-82" or a 5.45 bolt gun by any other name. Still didn't mean that
they didn't have it in their GT armories.

On the other hand, there's a theory that it could have been merely an
initial/transitional rifle intended, but never employed by NVA snipers
in training, who would after later transition over to the 7,62x54R
semiauto SWD. That's just a theory that was bantered around and never
corroboroated.

As a note on the second theory, the rifle doesn't even use the same scope as the SVD, let along other issues...

What can I say? It's a mystery weapon.

by MikhailN Fri 10 Jul 2009 - 1:51

Piero wrote:Except this particular weapon is East German, chambered in the 5.45x39mm round, and apparently built in the 80s (though how reliable the last fact is, who knows). I'd tend to find Kiskaloo's theory more credible, although there are counters to that as well. From another forum:

HDR, supposedly that's the intended purpose of the weapon. Honetly
though, I've never had official references to that assumption.
Incidently I have considerable first hand experience with the GT der
DDR. At the time of the collapse I wa the Commander of an organization
that conduscted all debriefings of refugees and escapees (to include GT
personnel) into West Berlin. We routinely debriefed the GT troops on
their Order of Battle (OB), force modernization efforts, relationship
to the NVA (Nationale Volks Armee - Military) and of course, to the MfS
(Minsterium fuer Staatssicherheit - Ministery for State Security - i.e.
"Stasi")and MdI ((Ministerium des Innern -- Ministry of the Interior -
i.e. Volkspolizei). Never once did we encounter a reference to the
"SSG-82" or a 5.45 bolt gun by any other name. Still didn't mean that
they didn't have it in their GT armories.

On the other hand, there's a theory that it could have been merely an
initial/transitional rifle intended, but never employed by NVA snipers
in training, who would after later transition over to the 7,62x54R
semiauto SWD. That's just a theory that was bantered around and never
corroboroated.

As a note on the second theory, the rifle doesn't even use the same scope as the SVD, let along other issues...

What can I say? It's a mystery weapon.

Then it's time for my ultimate theory of strange weapons: It was a mistake. Somebody screwed up during the design process and the salesman who sold the rifle to the government was as brilliant as the weapons engineer was lousy.

Incidentally my theory holds true for one particular rifle: The Walther WA2000 was originally intended to be a competition rifle for Olympic events like 50m prone but someone messed up so they converted it into a sniper rifle

by Piero Fri 10 Jul 2009 - 2:33

It could also be that someone for some reason decided it would be a good idea to have a sniper rifle that could share ammo with the AK-74, neglecting that no matter what you do to it 5.45x39mm is never going to be a very good long range cartridge. I'm reminded a bit of the H&K Mk.23 Mod O. Laughing

H&K delivered what they were asked for with that pistol. Of course, the end result was a pistol a lot of people considered too big, but hey, it did meet the accuracy and reliability requirements. Laughing

by Guest Fri 10 Jul 2009 - 14:00

MikhailN wrote:
Piero wrote:Except this particular weapon is East German, chambered in the 5.45x39mm round, and apparently built in the 80s (though how reliable the last fact is, who knows). I'd tend to find Kiskaloo's theory more credible, although there are counters to that as well. From another forum:

HDR, supposedly that's the intended purpose of the weapon. Honetly
though, I've never had official references to that assumption.
Incidently I have considerable first hand experience with the GT der
DDR. At the time of the collapse I wa the Commander of an organization
that conduscted all debriefings of refugees and escapees (to include GT
personnel) into West Berlin. We routinely debriefed the GT troops on
their Order of Battle (OB), force modernization efforts, relationship
to the NVA (Nationale Volks Armee - Military) and of course, to the MfS
(Minsterium fuer Staatssicherheit - Ministery for State Security - i.e.
"Stasi")and MdI ((Ministerium des Innern -- Ministry of the Interior -
i.e. Volkspolizei). Never once did we encounter a reference to the
"SSG-82" or a 5.45 bolt gun by any other name. Still didn't mean that
they didn't have it in their GT armories.

On the other hand, there's a theory that it could have been merely an
initial/transitional rifle intended, but never employed by NVA snipers
in training, who would after later transition over to the 7,62x54R
semiauto SWD. That's just a theory that was bantered around and never
corroboroated.

As a note on the second theory, the rifle doesn't even use the same scope as the SVD, let along other issues...

What can I say? It's a mystery weapon.

Then it's time for my ultimate theory of strange weapons: It was a mistake. Somebody screwed up during the design process and the salesman who sold the rifle to the government was as brilliant as the weapons engineer was lousy.

Incidentally my theory holds true for one particular rifle: The Walther WA2000 was originally intended to be a competition rifle for Olympic events like 50m prone but someone messed up so they converted it into a sniper rifle

You are wright about the WA2000 rifle but there were only 13 made and all of them are owned by the same guy who made it.

by Guest Fri 10 Jul 2009 - 14:03

Piero wrote:
MikhailN wrote:
Then again, some guns are oddball for a very good reason. http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn40-e.htm . This sniper rifle is a joke. 2+MOA for a sniper rifle? Even assault rifles are more accurate

That thing drew my curiosity due to how much of an oddity it is. There is someone who claims to have gotten one of those to shoot 1/2 to 3/4 inch groups with handloaded ammunition, so perhaps it has greater accuracy potential then it's given credit for (this was just a message board post, but then Modern Firearms isn't exactly the most credible source out there either). Of course, there's still the question of why the heck the thing ever existed... why make a bolt action sniper rifle that fires such a weak round? Actually, one of the biggest mysteries surrounding the weapon seems to be the question of what the hell it was actually intended for. There are at least two theories, but neither one seems that solid.

I beg to differ on the weak round comment. The 5.45x39mm round can achive 900-1000 foot pounds of energy....more than enough to kill wild game.

by MikhailN Fri 10 Jul 2009 - 15:48

Resent anime fan wrote:You are wright about the WA2000 rifle but there were only 13 made and all of them are owned by the same guy who made it.

Actually 176 were made and 15 were shipped to the US. 11 of those 15 are owned by the President of Walther USA. Generally this is found in the hands of wealthy private collectors.

by Piero Fri 10 Jul 2009 - 21:40

Resent anime fan wrote:I beg to differ on the weak round comment. The 5.45x39mm round can achive 900-1000 foot pounds of energy....more than enough to kill wild game.

I was talking about the round in the context of sniper rifles (which is reportedly what the SSG-82 is). 5.45x39mm is very low powered compared to most sniper rifle ammunition, and as such I doubt the SSG-82 has good long range performance compared to most sniper rifles.

by MikhailN Sat 11 Jul 2009 - 9:47

Piero wrote:
Resent anime fan wrote:I beg to differ on the weak round comment. The 5.45x39mm round can achive 900-1000 foot pounds of energy....more than enough to kill wild game.

I was talking about the round in the context of sniper rifles (which is reportedly what the SSG-82 is). 5.45x39mm is very low powered compared to most sniper rifle ammunition, and as such I doubt the SSG-82 has good long range performance compared to most sniper rifles.

The 5.45mm can still be used as a sniper round. In this case its value lies not in stopping power but in velocity. Rule of thumb: the faster the bullet, the less affected it is by air currents because its in the air for a shorter period of time. The MV for the 5.45mm is higher than that of most other rounds like 7.62mm or .50BMG so it is less affected by wind and when the target is moving, you don't need to aim very far off to hit it.

About long range capabilities, there wasn't a real need. The Russian doctrine for snipers at that time stated that their engagement range was 400m. It may sound silly now but bear in mind that during WWII most of the engagements were at about 100m and most of the time the combatants weren't aiming (data was collected by the chaps at Armalite) so 400m was quite far off. 5.45mm rounds would still perform decently at 400m

by LoC978 Sat 11 Jul 2009 - 10:14

...so long as they don't hit a leaf or a plant stalk. That's the trouble with those light rounds.

by **rusty-spring** Sat 11 Jul 2009 - 10:16

LoC978 wrote:...so long as they don't hit a leaf or a plant stalk. That's the trouble with those light rounds.

"The answer? Use a gun. If that doesn't work, use MORE gun." Razz

by LoC978 Sat 11 Jul 2009 - 10:18

tell that to Vietnam vets who had their fully automatic M16A1 fire deflected by grass.

It was big Vietnamese grass, but still... GRASS!

by MikhailN Sat 11 Jul 2009 - 10:19

LoC978 wrote:...so long as they don't hit a leaf or a plant stalk. That's the trouble with those light rounds.

Or snow or rain for that matter. That's why nowadays 7.62mm and .338Lapua is favoured. They have a good balance of everything

by **rusty-spring** Sat 11 Jul 2009 - 10:59

LoC978 wrote:tell that to Vietnam vets who had their fully automatic M16A1 fire deflected by grass.

It was big Vietnamese grass, but still... GRASS!

The rule still rings true, they still needed more gun. Perhaps if we had perfected personal miniguns by then, it might have ended up different. $dancin\\'$

by LoC978 Sat 11 Jul 2009 - 20:17

...or just had all of em buff up enough to carry an M60: