Greetings and salutations

Hello, I have basically been an avid fan of the work; courtesy of the manga and the first series only. To me, the series represented depth that couldn't be matched by any other mediums in the same category. It was a series that actually represented something meaningful out of a simple cartoon, especially one that was to be as childish and perverted as Il Teatrino assorted itself to be. Perhaps this may be the shared opinion of the whole fan base, however; that "second" series that followed after the first ought to remove the blatant Gunslinger Girl title from itself. It was a bad, very bad addition to something so "remarkable" as the first practically came to be. In fact, I have decided to "ignore" the existence of it, altogether-- at least until I heard someone make a stunningly resourceful suggestion on how to make amends towards something so very wrong: "support" Il Teatrino in hopes that the future will finally pay-off in its own very pricey way... Whether or not the idea is just, only time can tell but I do think that badmouthing the series over and over again should not bring any justice to what was once "great" and practically unmatched! Therefore, out of all the other suggestions, if someone does buy this gimmick of a sequel to the point that it'll garner "interest" and eventually become a marketable product that will be bought by a more capable funding department--creating a chance for something reminiscent of the past, the former, and the great(est) thing we all should love. At least, that is my new opinion of the matter, concerning the fate of a stumbled series, that was fairly good.

Aside from the sheer hideousness that Il Teatrino sprouts from inside of me, I actually give ample credit to the original Gunslinger Girl. Personally, the episodes and details made that anime series something worthwhile, where there's little to even consider "worthwhile" anymore-- especially when you look around and have about 50% of the medium revolved around the same pointless bullshit, and the other "50%" is basically full of the following: stupid perverted "action" bullshit that stars either pirates, ninjas, or some other fictional make believe junk, the same spin-off to something that is no longer impressive, and of course the 10% that is something "original" and has a rather delightful story of "truth" and "justice" that isn't some elaborated dreamed-up metaphor with the run-of-the-mill cover boy playing pretend... The manga and the first series actually goes against the "norm" that anime has become degraded by, and places itself in a league that governs little, but it does hold a rather "distinguished" feel to it: something that is memorable for its quality, not what amazingly stupid masses follow it!

A story that revolves around two brothers, and their grudge, easily becomes much more when the world's darker side is put next to them, and engulfs them! The two brothers, different opinions on how to do things, then must live and precede doing what they do when they do it and how they do it: they do what real people would do, realistically speaking. They don't try and "save" a world from some super-powerful, omnipotent deity: they enlist their vengeance to acquire revenge for what a radical group instituted onto them... Something realistic is what the plot originates from, and it blossoms in!

The characters, at least in the beginning, were the heart of the story, and the soul of the serial. They made it all "come together" and work! It wasn't a character that revolved around the "big breasts" and "squeaky voice" principle that the rest of the universe seemed to incorporate; no! Gunslinger Girl took children that "suffered" and gave them a chance at life once again, however, this time they were forced to bare the dividend of having cybernetic limbs and a trusted job, if they hoped to keep this reality just that! Comparing what the mood of the work was with something else is like comparing gold to bronze; it is degrading, is all. Furthermore, the series had used their characters [at least to what was given] extremely well, and fully. From the many handlers to the many co-workers in Section 1 and Section 2, they were all paid their respects, despite the reluctance of doing exactly that. It was more than just an Abel-story about two brothers, it was about the life and times of "realistically" believable people doing fictional dirty work in the middle of Italy. You could institute that there's not a series without the simple little minor characters that created it; from the construction workers, to the politicians, and even the people that sell and serve the main casts! This was something that watching other works could never bring, at least not like Gunslinger Girls had taken the liberty to bring and successfully brought it!

Barring the fact that I can continuously expand and elaborate on why I feel Gunslinger Girls (manga and the first season) is an incredible work that ought to be enjoyed by everyone, everywhere... I just cannot continue to do this in my first, precise post on this astonishing forum. Do excuse me, however, I must end my little rant about how great this series was when I first saw it, and even when I took the chance to read it!

Thank you, and I hope we'll be able to get along talking about them gals!

Greetings [and applause] that was a very well-written opinionated piece. I'm glad that you enjoyed the manga and the first season. I hope to hear more about you as time progresses. Oh and before I forget, Welcome to the forum.

Wow... I think that's possibly the longest introduction we've had here, though I'm going to have to knock marks off for the lack of correct, APA style referenceing and citations

In seriousness though, you've hit upon a few of the aspects of GSG that I find sets it apart from the norm and eventually drew me to the series (I actually didn't like it for the first few episodes), namely the way it uses its characters and also that it doesn't pull punches. To explain the latter: the "little girls with big guns" theme in anime/manga is nothing new. However very few series that I've seen admit to how incredibly screwed up that particular situation is. GSG however grasps that situation with both hands and turns it into one of the cornerstones of how its characters develop and interact.

Anyway, welcome to the forum. Though if all your posts are going to be that long and in-depth I'm going to have to make a note not to read them either before bed or pre-coffee.

While I did enjoy Il Teatrino, I do agree with you on some of your other points. GSG is a great series that really stands out. Not my favourite series, though, as it does have flaws that prevent it from being considered "the best", but it's considerable enough to warrant multiple viewings and readings and to make me join this forum.

And I'll let the world's cutest loli greet you!

@Jacen Starslayer,

Thank you for the greeting, and welcoming. I am excited about joining a website dedicated to one of the better "manga" and "anime" out there, in the wide world, that is!

Yes, perhaps I'll share my personal information even, as I certainly "failed" to do so in my first post... Call it "shyness," I guess.

@Kiskaloo,

Thank you, and just for the record, Triela is one of my favorite characters too...

@Alfisti,

I, too, did not fully enjoy the first few episodes either... In fact, the first two episodes bored me due to the slow pace and what not. I suppose the introduction parts were needed, but I didn't fully care much about them, and I didn't pay much attention to the going-on that occurred at first. I had my opinion that this wouldn't live up to what little expectations I may have had at that time. Then, it all changed: Rico had a really good showing in that episode with the "boy" that works at that hotel. If it wasn't for her character being revealed in that perspective, I might have dropped the series due to it being "silly" and not "well-advised" and I would have regretfully missed Triela's past and the story surrounding that.

I totally agree with what you said. It was all that was needed to get me addicted to the series.

Side note:
I won't always type that much, I just figured that a longer post might be more "unique" than a small, concise and quick to the point post that merely says, "hi." with attitude. Truthfully, I'm far too apathetic to continue deliberately writing long, and longer, posts... It's just not me. So, you won't have to worry, really!?

@Five_X,
I agree, too, that the series had some flaws as well, especially since it had merely "13" episodes to consider-- when you exclude the follow-up. The lack of an "ending" is what truly troubles the series, as well as it blatantly focusing on other aspects. However, that's not what makes me consider it a "good" or better type series.

The manga, though, seems to lose almost all of their flaws especially due to the length of it. A longer story is more complete, and centered than that of a small serial that didn't resolve much. The manga is heavily building up the expiration date of the original girls, and ought to cleverly devise a fitting end to how our "starlets" thrive in their expected demise. What ought to be presented vividly is how the girls finally feel knowing their end is near, and their take on their rebirth, granted that is... The organization is changing, and we are practically certain that the main cast of males, handlers, will leave once their objectives are complete, and their girls are dead. How they plan to live out and what they learned from their little guardianship are two of the most influential questions that remain unanswered in the soon-to-be-visible ending.

There aren't many series that replicate such intriguing suspenseful questions than GSG does. We know that the girls aren't able to infinitely live without penalty, therefore, they ought to fear for their deaths and many of them have hadn't much of a "promising" life, beforehand, which would make this "fear" of death ever so important and meaningful. An expiration date is what makes the series so "good" and something that several other series haven't really crafted at all. Just to name a few, more commonly known series:
-Naruto, the character practically has no fear for death because the absence of an expiration date makes it so. There's only three ways he could die: old age, being killed, and something like having his "Kyuubi" extracted from his inside... (which is survivable, thanks to Gaara)
-Bleach, the character cannot die, granted that everything around him dies and withers away faster than roses in the middle of a desert. He also fails to impress.
-One Piece, the character doesn't have anything that would kill him, but his weakness to water makes it more meaningful than the previous two examples.
-Fairy Tail, this is typical of these type of manga, the characters are immortal...
-Reborn!! follows the same pattern, where practically no consequence exists...

Of course, none of these manga are expected to have this sort of thing anyway, therefore, it isn't that great of an example... The following would be better, though:
-Vagabond.
-Samurai X, only "later" though, around the end.

I cannot really think of any other prime examples where main characters are dreadfully given an apparent expiration date. Rather than ponder this excessively, I'll get to the point...

In the other manga, Shonen, the main cast doesn't have some sort of "expiration date" that will haunt them for the rest of their lives. They have the possibility that they'd be "killed," but that is as realistically possible as the idea that they'd actually instantly replicate God's right hand for their own hand. In GSG, though, we are explicitly shown "death" as a subplot, if not a prime plot, and we are even more shown how much the young children value their "new" life and chance at living, something they painfully were robbed of having their "first" life... We are also put into a position where even though we know the end will come, we wish for it not to come and hope for the girl to live, forever even. This feeling of intense suspense makes us hooked to the story, because we are aware of the fact that the girls will have an expiration date really, really soon. Furthermore, to make things worse for them, the conditioning process takes a few years away from their lives, also, therefore; they're already shortened from the get-go. To the adults, that have experienced life, or the people that weren't able to live it without any regrets, this major part of the story is something that only they could understand and relate to, not weakly either. For instance, Triela has a big amount of support to live, and that's basically from the story's point of view-- as well as several of the fan's own opinion too. Her character's future is obvious, however, we are there explicitly paying attention to any signs that the day she passes is the one we see; due to the revelation of how she came to be a cyborg. They didn't really have this sort of deep emotional "hibbob" in other mangas, now did they?

This is easily why I would consider GSG as one of the better products out there, for the audiences. The most simplistic thing that explains this best is the slogan above the GSG name, "girls with guns, but they're real girls!!" What it means is that the "girls" may be cyborgs, but they're realistically humane in every way, and they ought to have a chance to live their life out. Unfortunately, we know they'll die; but we don't know if they'll die content, or despise it all.

To me, it's just hard to "relate to" concerning the manga medium only... The anime, however, wouldn't be the best in the world because it lacked a continuation that made it sparkle. If Il Teatrino were to have dazzled, as vividly as the first did, then we could be considering GSG--the series--as one of the better animes out there, if not one of the best. Otherwise, it doesn't have the right to be considered that, unless you pardon the first season for its miscues, and missing pieces. The manga, though, isn't fable to this and would easily contend with those "smash" mangas that exist, elsewhere. I believe you wouldn't question this, though...

Your take?

Dreamcast05 wrote:I, too, did not fully enjoy the first few episodes either... In fact, the first two episodes bored me due to the slow pace and what not. I suppose the introduction parts were needed, but I didn't fully care much about them, and I didn't pay much attention to the going-on that occurred at first. I had my opinion that this wouldn't live up to what little expectations I may have had at that time. Then, it all changed: Rico had a really good showing in that episode with the "boy" that works at that hotel. If it wasn't for her character being revealed in that perspective, I might have dropped the series due to it being "silly" and not "well-advised" and I would have regretfully missed Triela's past and the story surrounding that.

Yeah, Triela's first episode was the one that really hooked me. Sometimes I wonder if it would have hooked me as thoroughly as it did though without those first few episodes of not being sure about the whole gig. How to say... I guess Triela's character is a strong contrast against 'Etta and Rico. However she's also the most "normal" of the girls and I don't think that would have come across as strongly without the setup from the other two. Dont' get me wrong, though, I like all the GSG characters and I think that's the point: it's best appreciated as a whole.

Alfisti wrote:

Dreamcast05 wrote:I, too, did not fully enjoy the first few episodes either... In fact, the first two episodes bored me due to the slow pace and what not. I suppose the introduction parts were needed, but I didn't fully care much about them, and I didn't pay much attention to the going-on that occurred at first. I had my opinion that this wouldn't live up to what little expectations I may have had at that time. Then, it all changed: Rico had a really good showing in that episode with the "boy" that works at that hotel. If it wasn't for her character being revealed in that perspective, I might have dropped the series due to it being "silly" and not "well-advised" and I would have regretfully missed Triela's past and the story surrounding that.

Yeah, Triela's first episode was the one that really hooked me. Sometimes I wonder if it would have hooked me as thoroughly as it did though without those first few episodes of not being sure about the whole gig. How to say... I guess Triela's character is a strong contrast against 'Etta and Rico. However she's also the most "normal" of the girls and I don't think that would have come across as strongly without the setup from the other two. Dont' get me wrong, though, I like all the GSG characters and I think that's the point: it's best appreciated as a whole.

Triela's first episode was great, too, and probably one of the best episodes in the short series (wish the series had continued with the same dynamics for the more significant Triela moments that the second season picked up...) and I do agree that Triela's character easily became the best "girl" in the series; no questions there! However, before Triela was given her due, Henrietta and Rico were the two characters that practically hogged the screen time, so to speak. Like you, I wasn't stunned to watch Henrietta blush continuously when being swamped with gifts, and kindness--nor was the Rico sniping parts the greatest ever. Those were rather boring, if you ask me... However, that changed when Rico was given her episode, and the whole entire part made me root for her character, and approve her killing people just to get a day, or two.

Even though it is wrong, morally and so forth, there's just a feeling that you would root for these girls to continue tooting their guns around in public, because of their pasts. Call it sympathy, but that's how I look at it.

Greetings...welcome to the forum.

While I can't agree 100% with your undiluted condemnation of the second season personally you will find plenty of allies here to support your viewpoint.

The reason I am hesitant to throw Il Teatrino straight into the dustbin is that doing so would place the first season on a pedestal that perhaps it does not deserve. While the animation (of the 2nd season) was clearly second-rate there are things it did better than its predecessor.

I know, such a blasphemous statement impells me to provide examples:
Personally I felt the music was better intergrated into the story, the "added scenes" that were not in the manga were better thought out (the first season's Villa raid was completely contrived to provide an action ending), and the episodes showed good story development...the first season by contrast was a series of character studies with no real plot holding it together.
The first season's second episode was so repetitive that I almost didn't make it to the third (which would have been a shame).

However you feel I'm glad to see a new member who likes to write...you'll fit right in here!

-IL TEATRINO_ benefitted from having Yu Aida write the screeenplays, which kept the story much closer focused to the manga.

But the character designs were just so horrible and the animation level so much lower that it just killed my experience compared to the lushness of the first series, even if the stories were not as good.

Professor Voodoo wrote:Greetings...welcome to the forum.

While I can't agree 100% with your undiluted condemnation of the second season personally you will find plenty of allies here to support your viewpoint.

The reason I am hesitant to throw Il Teatrino straight into the dustbin is that doing so would place the first season on a pedestal that perhaps it does not deserve. While the animation (of the 2nd season) was clearly second-rate there are things it did better than its predecessor.

I know, such a blasphemous statement impells me to provide examples:
Personally I felt the music was better intergrated into the story, the "added scenes" that were not in the manga were better thought out (the first season's Villa raid was completely contrived to provide an action ending), and the episodes showed good story development...the first season by contrast was a series of character studies with no real plot holding it together.
The first season's second episode was so repetitive that I almost didn't make it to the third (which would have been a shame).

However you feel I'm glad to see a new member who likes to write...you'll fit right in here!

Yes, however, to overrate Il Teatrino because it only comes to mention due largely in part of what the "MANGA" created is something that basically ought to be granted to the MANGA, not the spin-off that failed, miserably even, at the most basic segments to expect from that sort of medium.

Yes, the plot lacked in the first season, and the case-studies were the backbone of the series... However, in frankness, the series didn't "really" require a plot that centers around it, and drives it forward. It required more elaboration upon the characters, themselves. Yes, the series failed to conclude, and complete itself, however, it was setting a great sequel up that could be the talk of the world-- if given the chance to be such. As a first season, there's really no question that the series had a terrific start, where it focused to introduce the viewer into the world, and the characters; more so than it did to introduce the dynamics of the full-on, expected plot line. It saved that savoring delight for the series that ought to follow it, as the final episode graciously took note of. The series ended with a great prologue feeling to it, the passing of one; the upcoming of several more-- or so that's how it'd best be seen as. Unfortunately, the hype wasn't matched and the adaptation was just an annoying attempt to represent the manga, in animation!

I'd take the manga's, silent but vivid episodes over Il Teatrino, any day.

When you consider the basis of the original losing value, the characters themselves, no amounts of plot, action, or gimmicks will help make it stand elbow-width next to it. Sure, the pace was faster, however, the visuals lacked beauty. Sure, the plot was there, but that's only because it decided to follow the manga's plot. Sure, the other things were there, but again, they only compliment the manga's plot usage, not the actual anime--which failed to impress when it was "animated" so to speak. What's an "animation" if it doesn't seem flashy when animated? You tell me, I'd like to know!

To be frank, dreamcast, yes, the first season and by extension first two volumes really did need a plot to tie it all together. Even some of my friends who really enjoy very character-focused works thought that it really could use some plot. Honestly, it's quite a big problem, especially in making it enjoyable to watch. Luckily that issue was fixed. You're being quite sensationalist when it comes to the first season. I agree that it was great, but I accept that it does have flaws and several things that could have been done better.

The manga and the first series actually goes against the "norm" that anime has become degraded by, and places itself in a league that governs little

I liked this sentence of your. And welcome to my forum,I'm pleased to have an intellectual member like you!

Dreamcast rockin'. Welcome dawg.

WELCOME

and uhhh! Im quite speechless at the moment so ja. Welcome!

Welcome to the forum!

Welcome!

That was a fun read,I don't view il teatrino as harshly as you do,notably because I don't see it as a "gimmick",I think the creators actually tried to make it good,they didn't succeed,but to me it makes a whole lot of difference over "they didn't even try".
It could definatly have been a whole lot better, but it could also definatly have been worse,a lot worse.

But yes,Madhouse took the first couple of volumes that were just introduction to characters and managed to make the most out of then thanks to some clever adaptation.
Artland had the perfect soure material (even had yu aida writing the screenplay) and couldn't do anything with it.

I sometimes wonder why madhouse didn't wait a bit longer so that the first 5 volumes would be released and make an epic 26 episode adaptation,why the rush to adapt it so soon?

I think you and I will get along just fine.

I also despise Il Teatrino, and with every fiber of my being. I've said it in every other thread here so I may as well continue the process: if the first season of GSG was an artistic masterpiece, then Il Teatrino is like pissing all over the Mona Lisa. There's plenty of hate and bile being launched at it from a sizable portion of this forum (mostly me), so you're definitely not alone in your sentiments. I can link you to some very thorough bashings I wrote here on Il Teatrino if you'd like with a laundry list of reasons pertaining to why it's nothing but a putrid abomination.

Supporting Il Teatrino unfortunately in no way guarantees that another season will be produced, and more importantly, that it will be half-way decent. In fact, supporting the second season might just mean that if another season is made, they'll go ahead and spend $15 animating it again and butchering everything else along the way because the Il Teatrino would have received all that support. Don't fix what IS broken, since apparently people like it, is the message you might send. So save your money for GSG S1 merchendise, a nice restaurant meal, or burning in your fireplace.

You seem to be really exasperated with all the mediocrity and pointlessness of what 90% of other anime/manga are. You're also certainly not alone in that either. I've got a giant list of some other really artsy anime I have watched/will watch if you'd like a recommendation. There really are plenty of worthwhile and artistic anime out there, and even though it's all I ever really watch, I've still got a ton of titles to enjoy. If I'm going to watch something, it should be something worthwhile.

There's too much content in your post for me to address it all right now, so here's a couple other points. I really loved the ending of the first (AND ONLY) season and it works perfectly well on its own. Rather than being inconclusive, it's open ended, and a very well done open ending at that.
"For those who grasp the message behind its subtle simplicity, the ending will leave them feeling fulfilled." -Liegenschonheit
"You see the girls become killers, you see how they live… and you see what will happen to them in the end. Superbly executed - the best open ending to a series ever." - Taleweaver

I prefer the GSG1 to the manga actually for plenty of reasons. One of which involves this new character that was introduced but I'd rather not bring up right now, less I start another war here.

You do certainly like to write, don't you?

I have to say, I really don't get the hate-on for il Teatrino... might be because that was my first exposure to the series, but I really don't see the flaws that everyone seems to be portraying in it. I enjoyed the music, the animation doesn't seem to be nearly as bad as everyone's making it out to be... yes, the character designs were different, but that comes from simply using a different studio, so naturally there will be inconsistencies...

Not attempting to troll, simply expressing a touch of confusion...

Moss gathers on a rolling stone, Charon - I don't think that Il Teatrino is all that bad either, but elsewhere the negativity feeds off of and propogates itself, so that Il Teatrino has become one of those shows that some people just love to hate.

I can't make anyone hate Il Teatrino, as much as I'd like to, and I don't want to repeat myself too much so here's a post I wrote if you're looking for some brief insight on as to why I believe Il Teatrino to be a rancid abomination of a sequel. https://gunslinger-girl.forumotion.com/gunslinger-girl-anime-manga-and-video-games-discussions-f5/can-i-just-ask-a-simple-basic-question-t2402.htm#74936

Here's some more elaboration in case you'd like to sample some more bile. As for animation, for example, the first episode's highlights of animation include shaky cam across a still image at a riot and a retarded bullet-proof moped chase. But I jump on any opportunity I get to attack Il Teatrino, so take that as you will.

The characters weren't just drawn differently, and terribly at that, but they were simply different, as in not the same characters anymore. Gone is the quiet Henrietta, replaced with a moe-blob caricature of herself and Rico pretty much followed suit. And what the hell happened to Giuseppe? He looks like some damn harem anime lead character.

I honestly don't love hating it though. I love venting my hate for it, but I feel disgust and disappointment and nothing else when I rant about Il Teatrino. But I've gone well beyond the scope of this thread like I normally do, so I'll shut up for now. I might not change what you think about it, but I can certainly lay out my reasons.

Since I missed I haven't said it properly in my previous post, welcome Dreamcast!

Welcome Dreamcast, hope you'll feel at home here