[Non-GSG] YOUR Transformers Movie

I think that we can agree that despite being one heck of an action blockbuster, the new Transformers movie could be much, much better. The plot and characters are paper thin, Megatron and the Fallen are now Sith Lords, Devastator didn’t devastate much… well, I believe the critics have summed it up pretty nicely. Michael Bay is even stepping down after directing it.

In that light, and since I am terribly bored, I purpose this thread;

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Somewhere in an Alternate Reality that is about to be graced with a Trilogy of Awesome…

It is 2003 you are James Cameron. You have taken the daunting task of directing the upcoming Transformers Trilogy. You are also Simon Furman, who have to pen the screen play to the story. You are also… are slag it, you get the gist. Basically you are the collective consciousness of the team that will make Transformers film legend and its greatness will bring about a new age of peace and prosperity to mankind.

In that light, you have to come up with a proper script, characters, directing style, etc… to make your movies consistently rate 110% (or a six out of five stars).

HARD MODE: Your first movie has to be so good you can out box office the Dark Knight when it rolls around despite being released a year before.

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Your judgment criteria (and who to keep in mind)

THE FANDOM
Piss them off with a sub-par movie or annoy them too much and they will absolutely mob you.

THE CRITICS
If you don’t please the critics, your movie will not win awards. You need to create a masterpiece, not juat another action movie!

THE MASSES
Your movie must enlighten the masses to the glory of the Transformers franchise.

And if you do TOO badly…

MEGATRON
If your movie trilogy screws up so bad, a ‘thoroughly insulted’ Megatron and a small contingent of ‘offended’ Transformers will burst through space time to track you down and squish your little fleshling body for making a mockery out of them.

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Don’t worry about your budget. You can buy and sink a real Nimitz Class Aircraft Carrier and you won’t even make a dent in your finances. What, it's in the name for enlightening the world with your awesome film!

No let’s see what we can come up with.

Last note; Should I come up with a separate thread for brainstorming a live action GSG movie?

sasahara17 wrote:Last note; Should I come up with a separate thread for brainstorming a live action GSG movie?

Probably.

We do have the cast for a live-action GSG movie already picked out, so we can probably link that cast sheet to your new thread.

The first thing I would do as director would be to sack Orci and Kurtzman, replacing them with Simon Furman. A Transformers movie should be scripted by someone who knows the source material inside out, who treats it with reverence, and who can be counted on to deliver an intelligent plot and dialog that critics, fans and non-fans can equally appreciate.

I'll come up with the rest later.

Kiskaloo wrote:We
do have the cast for a live-action GSG movie already picked out, so we
can probably link that cast sheet to your new thread.

Ill get around to making a new thread tomorrow to see if this one can pick up steam first.

Nachtsider wrote:The first thing I would do as director would be to sack Orci and Kurtzman, replacing them with Simon Furman.

Good point. Let me go fix that...

I've got a few ideas myself, but most are... pretty radical.

+ My movie idea begins with a massive battle cumilating with the death of Sentinel Prime (go goes out in an epic one-on-one battle with Megs).
+ No fleshling humor subplots. Seriously, those bore the hell out of me. If Humans play a part, it was be totally buisness.
+ Movie needs Grimlock. Dunno how, but there MUST be Grimlock.
+ Omega Supreme as an Nimitz Class Aircraft Carrier.

I'll type up the full thing later.

If Sentinel is to be croaked early in the show, I propose that he be based on his Animated incarnation. Never liked that arrogant jerk.

Agreed on the fleshling humor. The human participants in my ideal Transformers flick would be non-civilians - as I see it, civilian characters in Transformers often require a great deal of time to 'ease into' their newfound role as participants in the Autobot-Decepticon conflict (training, acclimatization, etc). A great deal of time that can be lavished elsewhere in the plot. Military/paramilitary characters suffer much less from this handicap, if at all.

Grimlock should be fairly easy to do. Given that he's always been something of a rebel and not always one to see eye-to-eye with his Autobot comrades, it's not hard to imagine the Dinobot leader, contemptuous of the need to disguise (perhaps thinking it signifies cowardice), adopting a tyrannosaurus altmode by scanning animatronic dinosaurs or dinosaur skeletons in a museum. Alternatively, you can have Grimmy awaken on Earth long after he landed during prehistoric times (if you're using the quest for the Allspark as a plot device, perhaps he was the first to discover its presence on Earth and hence go after it), and keep the altmode he scanned from live tyrannosaurs way back then.

If you're talking radical ideas, I've got several, too. One of these being leaving some of the most popular Transformers out of the film entirely. For instance, I've often toyed with the idea of making Scorponok (based on his G1 incarnation, of course) or Shockwave the Decepticon leader. The Transformers universe has many characters whom, although less popular than those best-known to the general public, are equally deserving of the spotlight, if not more.

And yes - Omega as an aircraft carrier would be fantastic. Should he be in the movie, he has to go one-on-one with his opposite number, Tidal Wave perhaps.

Have a story Idea of my own. A Three movie epic.

Nachtsider wrote:If Sentinel is to be croaked early in the show, I propose that he be based on his Animated incarnation. Never liked that arrogant jerk.

Well, Tickbot IS a jerk... but I prefer the IDW Sentinel. He got cleaned by Megs, but boy was that Apex armor sweet. Hence why I'm going with the cool (albet gets his ass kicked) Sentinel Prime.

It's Nova Prime who is the jackass in my movie script (cybertronians are superior, humans are collateral damage, yadda yadda yadda).

Nachtsider wrote:The human participants in my ideal Transformers flick would be non-civilians... A great deal of time that can be lavished elsewhere in the plot. Military/paramilitary characters suffer much less from this handicap, if at all.

I know! Whenever Sam was on the screen it was like 'yea, whatever', but when ever Lennox and his team was on adranalin started pumping again. Still, I do need to put in a Witwicky somewhere to stay true to the source material, and the IDW crew (Verity, Hunter, Jimmy) are planned (since they spent most of their time being, I dunno... useful rather than being slapstick humor material). I think humans civie or military, are cool as long as they do not make fools out of themselves and generally try to play a larger role in the greater scheme of things.

Thus far I have, from various continuities...
Verity Carlo, Hunter O'nion, Jimmy Pink, Will Lennox (for some reason, I find him cool), Robert Epps (I find him cool too), F22 Pilot Robert Frocker, Some random Witwicky.

Nachtsider wrote:You can have Grimmy awaken on Earth long after he landed during prehistoric times (if you're using the quest for the Allspark as a plot device, perhaps he was the first to discover its presence on Earth and hence go after it), and keep the altmode he scanned from live tyrannosaurs way back then.

Grimlock as an old senile crantankerous can of whoop ass? Somehow that seems to much more fitting! Out of the way movie Jetfire! Grimlock Badass Old Dude!

Nachtsider wrote:If you're talking radical ideas, I've got several, too.

Well I am planning on delaying Peter Cullen's voice for whole two movies, so I don't think it can't get any more radical than that. Anyway for my less radical ideas;

+ Binary Bonding via human military exoskeletons is developed by the Human-Autobot alliance.
+ More Gestalts including Devastator, Monstuctor and Superion (who for the purposes of this movie, starts off a Decepticon but defects to the Autobots)
+ Suddenly, Dinobots!
+ *shock* In the three movies Optimus Prime DOES NOT DIE (he merely goes into Stasis, when someone reboots him with the matrix).

Nachtsider wrote:One of these being leaving some of the most popular Transformers out of the film entirely.

My idea does not have Optimus Prime (at least, Optimus Prime as we KNOW him) appear up until the final battle of the last movie. There's this chap called Orion Pax though. Small autobot, sort of meek and bookish since use used to be a data archivist before he got snapped up by the draft and was forced to be a dock worker because he is a 'concientious objector'.

Nachtsider wrote:And yes - Omega as an aircraft carrier would be fantastic. Should he be in the movie, he has to go one-on-one with his opposite number, Tidal Wave perhaps.

My idea is for Omega Supreme to land in the first movie but go missing becuase the Decepticons threw off his trajectory. He shows up in the third in a OMGWTF Moment.
Namely, while he was gone in the second movie he scanned the Enterprise (not a just any aircraft carrier but THE Enterprise, the only ship of her class). Then when the heroes radio for help, he comes and joins up with a responding US battlegroup (who were expecting to see the Enterprise which was actually was stalled by another Decepticons attack). Several Decepticons attack the battlegroup and land on one of the carriers... when the hunk of steel transforms beneath their feet. Now would be a ggod time to crap your pants, Skywarp.

Anyway, my basic idea focuses on the differences between Autobots and Decepticons, the importance of the Humanb-Autobot Alliance and Optimus Prime choosing to become the leader of the Autobots (bit worried that I'm mixing a bit of Hot Rod in here... though Hot Rod is impulsive idiot and I'd planned Orion to be a idealistic bookworm).

More in my next post.

Decided to wqatch the director commentary for the Transformers 2007 movie againm, just to see what Bay's thought processes were regarding his making of the first movie. y'know, just to see his side of the story.

I must say, I was suprised to see his reasoning was quite sound, especially when it came to special effects and CGI. Might not have been the right decisions, but I can't fault him for effort at least.

Just a couple of things I picked up from the commentary that I agreed with:

+ Always have the Pentagon's phone number on speed dial.
+ Use real vehicles and props whenever possible. Plus it saves money on CGI and effects. There is always a way to cut down on costs relating to Special Effects.
+ Lighting is the key to everything CGI.
+ Hire real martial artists and record them beating each other up in well coreofraphed fight scenes. Then have the animators superimpose the Transformers on that recording.
+ A good actor can make any line sound good.

Somthing I didn't agree with:

+ Must use Frank Welker, preferably for Soundwave. No compromises. Liam Neeson as someone in the cast sounds good. Just not Optimus, who has to be Cullen.
+ I've sure there is a way a way to make that cab over Optimus taller than twenty feet.
+ Do not make deal with GMC in 2007. Limits vehicle selection.

Anyway, just some of the directing choices Bay did I felt were good that I should keep around.

About the 'cab-over Optimus being more than twenty feet' thing? I think the 'no mass shifting' rule is bullshit. Mass-shifting for the win.

There's some other stuff I wanted to address, but I'll do that later.

Nachtsider wrote:About the 'cab-over Optimus being more than twenty feet' thing? I think the 'no mass shifting' rule is bullshit. Mass-shifting for the win.

IMHO, the 'no mass shifting' was a way to inject realism into the Transformers and make it more assessable to the entry level general public. It was a good movie on Bay's part to get new fans but resulted in choices that alienated the older ones... but I openly admit I'm the minority on that matter.

I can use that matter displacement device from Ultraviolet to make up for shifting mass. Perhaps I'll have mass shifting as a technology developed...

....actually...
....yes...

That'll be what I'd do! NACHT YOU ARE A GENIUS!

1st Movie, No mass displacement. Autobots are smaller (Natural size of Cybertrionians, Civilian vehicles) and Decepticons are bigger (Enhanced by experiments, big enougth to be Military vehicles) to give a sence of just how screwed the Autobots have been the last 200 years.

2nd Movie, US government appropriates experimental matter displacer from a XYZ Industries for Wheeljack to tweak to make Autobots bigger. Playing field, evened.

The origin of mass shifting.

I'll say it again: NACHT YOU ARE A GENIUS!

Nachtsider wrote:There's some other stuff I wanted to address, but I'll do that later.

Take your time, take your time.

Breaking from the usual fan demands that as many beloved characters as possible be thrown into the mix, I feel that the list of main players in a Transformers movie ought to be as small as possible in order to allow for maximum character screen time and development. The figures I've come up with would be a principal focus on no more than seven robots per faction (five per side being my optimum number), and no more than five human characters (preferably four). Of course, any number of other characters can appear in background/cameo roles, or in minor flashback appearances.

The four human characters I've spoken of would be segregated fifty-fifty into military men and civilians. Like you, Epps and Lennox were two of the few characters in the first film that I found tolerable; I deem them good enough for the first group (superior officers like Keller, while okay, need not play anything more than a background role, and we can entirely leave out hoky people like Simmons).

Careful thought on what you've said about civilians has sort of led me to reconsider my previous opinion on them, although I must insist that they be folks of a class who will take to the giant robots without all too much trouble. I'm thinking the conspiracy-theorist/computer hacker/semi-outlaw IDW crew, or perhaps scientists like the Sumdac family, who are accustomed to artificial intelligence. Verity Carlo was a bit too shrill for my liking; I'd take Maggie Marconi over her anyday. While I sympathized with Hunter's plight at being forcibly turned into a Headmaster, I didn't really care for him as a character. The computer hacker and conspiracy theoriest roles can actually be played by just one person.

But I suppose the Witwickies are too tightly woven into the Transformers mythos to be excluded. My ideal Witwicky cast member would be Marvel G1's tough, streetwise interpretations of Spike (predictably, Bay and company instead chose to base Sam on Witwicky black sheep Buster). He can play the levelheaded, down-to-earth Jimmy Pink role to his female hacker counterpart. Hopeless romantics might want to make them a couple, though I'd opt to keep them just friends so as not to create an unnecessary subplot.

When I wrote that post about Grimmy, I did not necessarily mean that he be an old robot - merely one who arrived on Earth long before everybody else, and was in stasis until his awakening much later. The other robot cast members would still largely be those of his age group. The image I have of Grimlock is of an arrogant, ruthless, unconventional, even uncouth, but nonetheless intelligent and fearsome warrior of Optimus' generation, or perhaps slightly younger - think Watchmen's Comedian, or better still, Superman: The Animated Series' interpretation of Lobo (both are must-view performances, with Lobo's voice being Grimlock's only possible voice to me). Still, a grizzled veteran Grimlock would be an interesting interpretation of the character - one that I would really like to see if done right.

Delaying Cullen as Optimus and not having Optimus die isn't really as radical as you might think; entire series have gone with someone other than Cullen playing that hallowed role, and several Optimuses have survived their respective series. I've already expressed my hearty approval of the binary-bonding concept being devloped by a human-Autobot alliance; it's a very nice way of necessitating that both sides work together.

While I think teams and gestalts are cool (Piranacon and Monstructor are my favorites), I won't lose any sleep if they're not featured; also, I don't know how I could shoehorn them into the mix without violating my 'small cast' rule. Also, defectors aren't really my kind of thing - I suppose they'd be fine if their defection is described as something they performed a long time ago, instead of us actually seeing them defect in the here and now, but I doubt I'd go down that road.

The build-up from Orion Pax to Optimus Prime over the course of three installments is a very novel idea, which brings to mind the treatment of the character in the Animated continuity; his being drafted also calls to mind how Prowl of the same series was pressed into Autobot service. I'd be mindful, though, about the pacing of the buildup; you can only keep our budding hero as an idealistic bookwork for so long. Rodimus as an impulsive idiot is a nice homage, and a cause for smiles.

In all truth, reasonably realistic explanations for mass-shifting already exist in the Transformers canon. The best and simplest one I've encountered so far is Dreamwave's concept that Transformers may be larger in one mode than another due to the outfolding or infolding of multi-layered parts. I'd go for mass-shifting as a well-established Cybertronian science, but the idea of it being yet another product of human-Autobot collaboration is very attractive (go Wheeljack!). The 'oversized Decepticons' concept you've come up with very favorably parallels their depiction in Animated as Cybertronian military hardware, vis-a-vis the formerly civilian Autobots (I think it's pretty plain by now how much I love that series - bleh). And lol. You're giving me too much credit, which I think is undeserved.

Next post will feature the robots I intend to use, and how I intend to present them. Keep those ideas coming, man - they're rich!

Nachtsider wrote: I feel that the list of main players in a Transformers movie ought to be as small as possible in order to allow for maximum character screen time and development… no more than seven robots per faction (five per side being my optimum number)… no more than five human characters.

Actually Michael Bay’s commentary had a few good points about this that seem to echo yours. For the first movie, it would be good to keep the number of Transformers to a manageable number, like five on six (probably a vanguard for each faction), to introduce the audience to the idea of big honking robots. The actual number of characters whose stories would be in the forefront among those would likely be about four or five (some who don’t show up in the first movie), most of whom are Autobots. As for the human characters, I would probably have considerably more of them (like twelve named characters and a ton of extras), but obviously the number of characters focused on would likely also be in the same region as the transformers.

Of course, once the action gets moving in the second movie the number of ‘extra’ Transformers, whose only purpose is to blow the ever living slag out of each other, will balloon as the war will suddenly show up on Earth’s doorstep.

Nachtsider wrote:The four human characters I've spoken of would be segregated fifty-fifty into military men and civilians. Like you, Epps and Lennox were two of the few characters in the first film that I found tolerable; I deem them good enough for the first.

Lennox and Epps were cool. Human soldiers fighting big ass Decepticons really drives the fact home on how terrifying even the weakest Decepticon soldier can be in relation to humans.
I’d keep the Secetary of Defence, or swap him with a General or some other high ranking officer to give a sense that there was a coordinated effort going on by the humans. His character would be immensely interesting since we get a view on what it is like commanding such a large, and seemingly outmatched, military force against the Decepticons.
Finally, I my last need-to-have military character would an Air-Force/Navy fighter pilot since airpower is one asset the Humans have that can hurt a Decepticon. Plus I’ll have him try and out dogfight Starscream just for kicks. There will be other military characters as well, but most will play lesser roles to support these characters.

Nachtsider wrote: I'm thinking the conspiracy-theorist/computer hacker/semi-outlaw IDW crew, or perhaps scientists like the Sumdac family…Verity Carlo was a bit too shrill for my liking; I'd take Maggie Marconi over her any day….The computer hacker and conspiracy theorist roles can actually be played by just one person.

Having a Sumdac in the movie could help launch the TFA series (remember we’ve hypothetically gone back in time here) as he/she would be a tie in character. Hm, Probably would be a good idea to fuse Maggie and Verity into one character to streamline the plot… *mumbles to self*

Nachtsider wrote:Witwickies are too tightly woven into the Transformers mythos to be excluded. My ideal Witwicky cast member would be Marvel G1's tough, streetwise interpretations of Spike (predictably, Bay and company instead chose to base Sam on Witwicky black sheep Buster)…Hopeless romantics might want to make them a couple, though I'd opt to keep them just friends so as not to create an unnecessary subplot.

Agreed wholeheartedly. Witwicky’s are too important to the mythos to exclude. Plus they’re normally good with cars, and the Autobots need every mechanic they can get.

Nachtsider wrote:When I wrote that post about Grimmy, I did not necessarily mean that he be an old robot - merely one who arrived on Earth long before everybody else, and was in stasis until his awakening much later… Still, a grizzled veteran Grimlock would be an interesting interpretation of the character - one that I would really like to see if done right.

To be honest, I lied the cranky old transformer in ROTF… except I feel that the concept shouldn’t have been used on Jetfire.
However seeing as how Grimlock’s Alt mode is a T-Rex, it could be a running joke that Grimlock is ‘old’… as in ‘prehistoric old’. He’s one of Sentinel Prime’s men, and waking up after his old deaded has perished in a time when the Autobots are having their afts handed to them would be an interesting development. His raison d’etre is killing Deceptijerks and proving all them stupid younglings that “Gimlock Still Basdass!”. Grimlock’s age might just be why he thinks the younger Autobot leaders might be inadequate (“Me Grimlock says you doing it wrong!”) and why he makes a play for the Autobot leadership. Anyway, Grimlcok can be anyone we want, just so long as he gets to kick some serious ass.

Nachtsider wrote:Delaying Cullen as Optimus and not having Optimus die isn't really as radical as you might think; entire series have gone with someone other than Cullen playing that hallowed role, and several Optimuses have survived their respective series. I've already expressed my hearty approval of the binary-bonding concept being developed by a human-Autobot alliance; it's a very nice way of necessitating that both sides work together.

well I’m thinking of Cullen voicing the narration of the movie (opening and ending of each movie). He would only start voicing Optimus when the man himself appears. Up until then, I’m going to try getting Crispin Freeman or Steve Blum to play Orion Pax.

Nachtsider wrote:…defectors aren't really my kind of thing - I suppose they'd be fine if their defection is described as something they performed a long time ago, instead of us actually seeing them defect in the here and now...

One point in which we differ. Given a major theme in the story is the choice between the ideals of an Autobot and those of a Decepticon, Jetfire (starting off as a Decepticon airman) will be one of the main protagonists. Of course he starts off as a Decepticon, but eventually his exposure to humans and being inspired by Orions actions case him to defect sometime during the third movie.

As for Gestalts, when the war heats up in the second movie, I’d start bringing a few of the Decepticon ‘big guns’ for the climatic battles of the second and third movie. You’re right in that the first movie has to be a ‘minor skirmish’ (could have fooled the humans) between two scout/recon teams.

Nachtsider wrote:The build-up from Orion Pax to Optimus Prime over the course of three installments is a very novel idea… I'd be mindful, though, about the pacing of the buildup; you can only keep our budding hero as an idealistic bookwork for so long.

Note taken. However, Orion differs from Rodimus in that where as Hot Rod was an impulsive and brash young mech, Orion was formerly a librarian and is very level headed. In my plot, he’s also spent the last two hundred or so years stranded on Earth looking the All Spark and Matrix of Leadership (which he was supposed to hide, but lost both of them on his re-entry). Given he’s been alone due to maintain a strict order of radio silence on Sentinel’s orders, Orion’s had a lot of time to think.

The main problem for Orion is that because when he followed Sentinel’s orders to hide the All Spark and the Matrix (long story) and wasn’t able to tell anyone about it, the Autobots think he deserted them! In fact, they think it’s HIS cowardice that cost Sentinel Prime’s life (and yes, they’ve had two hundred years to get angry about it)! …and being stuck on earth carrying out Sentinel’s final orders, Orion has no clue one how bad things have gone. Boy is Orion going to get one hell of a rude shock when he finally breaks radio silence and calls for help.

…now that I think about it, it’s less of a ‘coming of age’ story and more of an ‘return of the king’ type plot. Hm, who would have thought.

Nachtsider wrote:In all truth, reasonably realistic explanations for mass-shifting already exist in the Transformers canon… but the idea of it being yet another product of human-Autobot collaboration is very attractive (go Wheeljack!). The 'oversized Decepticons' concept you've come up with very favorably parallels their depiction in Animated as Cybertronian military hardware.

I’m actually worried that I’ve been putting too much weight on the necessity of an Autobot-Human alliance. True the interim Autobot leader (in my movie plan anyway) is a complete ass (who ordered Wheeljack to develop, for the lack of a better term, suicide bombers), but still I fear that I’ might accidentally portray the Autobots as having been completely incompetent up until the puny humans came along.
Still, considering the timeline was derailed when Orion didn’t become Optimus when he was supposed to, I guess that might be justifiable.