BATMAN!

Okay as seen here, we became to get all Batman. For once instead of just continuing on in that thread it's breaking off into it's own thread. So let the discussion continue. Various topics might include:

• Batman vs Superman
• Batman vs Gunslinger Girls(?!)
• Coolest Batman Villain
• Coolest/Worsest Batman movie
• Random shit!

Personally I think that the fight between Batman, and Superman comes down to who ever attacks first. Superman is just to powerful for an unsuspecting Batman. While Batmans genius mind will ensure Superman never escapes his traps. As for Gunslinger girls, 1-2 would be his max, after that he runs the serious risk of get over whelmed. [sp?]

Two major fights between Superman and Batman have taken place throughout the characters' history - one in the Batman: Hush story arc, and the other one in The Dark Knight Returns. The outcome of both was the same - Batman won thanks to his ingenuity.

Knowing Batman, he'd probably come up with some way of besting the cyborgs if he were to survive his initial encounter with them - their natural disguise might very well catch him off-guard. Perhaps the methods in question might be akin to the stuff we discussed in the 'Technical Discussion' section.

Easy, Danjo - there's nothing scandalous going on between the Dynamic Duo, and they've both got their respective women. Bruce and Dick are like a father and his adopted son; the same went for Jason Todd, and also applies to the current Robin, Tim Drake.

I'm not a giant marvel/DC comic buff so anything I say has to be said with a grain of salt.

That said, in all honesty, I believe Superman should be able to wipe the floor with Batman. (I said SHOULD not WOULD...) Batman is just a man - yes a very clever, very RICH man with tons of toys (without which he probably wouldn't be as "superhero" like) - but he is not SUPERhuman like the red and blue boy.

Seeing as how unless you've got access to kryptonite (which if comics are to believed, can be bought at any "Evil-R-Us" store...) you're gonna have a tough time taking down someone who's faster than a freaking bullet and can fly (and all the other powers he's got.)

Though I'll give it to Batman on one front, namely Batgirl and Catwoman.

This may bring me scorn, but my favorite superhero has always been (Captain Planet not withstanding ) Spiderman since I was a lil tot.

Nachtsider wrote:Easy, Danjo - there's nothing scandalous going on between the Dynamic Duo, and they've both got their respective women. Bruce and Dick are like a father and his adopted son; the same went for Jason Todd, and also applies to the current Robin, Tim Drake.

Wow. you sure know your Batman. Ok, then I'll throw this out. As far as the movies are concerned, what are your pre and post “nipple” opinions.

Why do I get flashbacks of SNL's "Ace and Gary - The Ambiguously Gay Duo?"

Danjo3 wrote:Wow. you sure know your Batman. Ok, then I'll throw this out. As far as the movies are concerned, what are your pre and post “nipple” opinions.

Tim Burton's Batman movies I regard as being good on the whole (Batman Returns currently occupies second place behind Batman Begins as my favorite of the bunch), although both admittedly lacked the special ingredient that made Chris Nolan's flick such a great movie - same way Michael Keaton, Val Kilmer and George Clooney were passable Batmen who were nevertheless devoid of Christian Bale's X-factor. Danny DeVito's Penguin, however, I regard as being the best rendition of the character ever to be shown on-screen, and better in many ways than all the comic-book incarnations. He should of earned an Oscar for that performance.

Honestly, what Joel Schumacher did to Batman and Robin's suits worried me very little - if at all - comapared to what he did with the rest of Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. While the casting was fair, the scripts and overall effect were dreadful.

Liam Neeson did a *fantastic* Ra's al Ghul. Although I like Michael Gough's Alfred, Michael Caine's interpretation makes me chuckle. Cilian Murphy's Scarecrow, while well played, could have been more akin to the comic-book version - the ghoulish straw man outfit, complete with scythe and hidden fear gas ports, could actually work if done right, I say. And the new Batmobile is pure WIN.

rusty-spring wrote:This may bring me scorn, but my favorite superhero has always been (Captain Planet not withstanding ) Spiderman since I was a lil tot.

Don't say that, Rusty. Spiderman's a cool dude, whom I also like. Wish I knew more about him, though. My knowledge is largely derived from a smattering of random comic issues and the 1994 animated series.

Nachtsider wrote:Easy, Danjo - there's nothing scandalous going on between the Dynamic Duo, and they've both got their respective women. Bruce and Dick are like a father and his adopted son; the same went for Jason Todd, and also applies to the current Robin, Tim Drake.

Although as far as I know, Tim Drake still has his folks around. So Bruce would be more of an endearing uncle.

And on the movies; Batman Begins is money from bell to bell. However, Tim Burton receives note for not only making a great comic book movie(for its time) he actually inspired the comic to change its format to the "dark knight" persona that continues to this day as noted in the SE-DVD commentaries.

Just for the record, Boomer - Tim's mother Janet died prior to Tim taking on the mantle of Robin when she was poisoned by the Obeah Man, while Jack was later killed by Captain Boomerang during the Identity Crisis arc. Thus, your 'endearing uncle' scenario, while applicable between the time of Janet's death and that of Jack's, doesn't actually apply anymore.

Regarding Tim Burton - while he can be credited for steering the movie franchise back to its dark and gritty roots, the real figure to whom accolades must go for doing this to the comic book is Frank Miller. His seminal Dark Knight Returns miniseries turned the comic industry on its ear, and was Burton's inspiration.

Nachtsider wrote:Two major fights between Superman and Batman have taken place throughout the characters' history - one in the Batman: Hush story arc, and the other one in The Dark Knight Returns. The outcome of both was the same - Batman won thanks to his ingenuity.

Well it's don't know where it stands in cannon, but in Red Sun Batman totally lost. There was also a Batman, and Superman comic where he's nearly crushed by a semi-evil Superman from the future. The only thing that saves him is that Superman is there, and the evil on runs out of time. In Hush Superman is clearly holding back. Seeing as he is under a form of mind control, and fighting to not kill Batman. Thus giving Batman the edge he needs. In The Dark Knight Returns, and The Dark Knight Strikes Again, Batman is aware of the coming fight. That allows him to prepare accordingly. If Superman really wanted to he could burn Batman to ash form orbit. In that kind of a scenario Batman stands no chance. Thankful that tends to be counter to Supermans way, what ever the universe. This is why I say it depends on who attacks.

rusty-spring wrote:That said, in all honesty, I believe Superman should be able to wipe the floor with Batman. (I said SHOULD not WOULD...) Batman is just a man - yes a very clever, very RICH man with tons of toys (without which he probably wouldn't be as "superhero" like) - but he is not SUPERhuman like the red and blue boy.

Batman doesn't need super powers. It's not how he rolls. He's trained himself, a lot. He's a man in peak physical condition. Not to mention one of the finest minds ever seen. Combined with his gear, he can handle a wide range of situations. Yeah sure, he's not always ready like Superman, but given a chance to prepare, and he's a bad ass. He'll have a plan, he'll have the tools, and the know how. The gadgets themselves would be useless if not for the plans he created around them.

That's what happens in his fights with Superman. Bruce Wayne is rich, he can get his hands of kryponite. In fact, Superman gave him a kryponite ring. The reasoning being, that if he ever went evil, some one had to be prepared to stop him. He choose Batman. Now you can take that as sign that he wants to actually turn evil, or you can look at it as being smart. Batman, plans ahead, he knows exactly what he has to due to defeat Superman. Whether it's sucking all the electricity out of gotham, to wailing on him with kryponite knuckles. You can be sure he's got a plan, and a tool for ever occasion.

Movie Debate

Tell the truth Batman Begins was the first Batman film I had zero problems with. I had a few problems with Batman chief among that was Batman killing people. There is a scene where he drives into a factory full of Joker cronies. Only to explode said factory, with his own bombs, a short time later. Yeah he had to kill a ton of guys that way. Batman is haunted by death. He doesn't kill, at least not on that scale, without any consideration. Just having him blow up a factory is completely antithetical to his character. Not to mention the movie had it's chessy moments. The scene where the Joker ruins some art, Batman being shoot down by jokers massive hand cannon. Yeah...

Batman Returns was infinitely better, and The Penguin was the most awesome character in that film. Still there where just a few small things that bugged me. Nothing major, more of just a feeling. I shouldn't have to explain my problems with Batman and Robin, and Batman Forever. Those two got progressively worse.

Now Liam Neeson, is one of my favorite actors. I can't think of a movie he was in that I didn't enjoy. Christian Bale was also awesome in his roll. I don't think there was an actor in the film that did anything, but good work. That, and the story was great. It was it's own story while still tipping it's hat to Batman: Year One. There was a lot of character depth, that I honestly think the earlier films completely missed.

Yeah, and Frank Millers The Dark Knight Returns created the modern Batman. He would still be pretty camp if not for Frank. That story is just so awesome. Batman hauls a street punk all the way to the top of one of the 'Gotham Towers' [IE the twin towers]. It's an awesome little scene that shows just how bad ass Batman. There's a point in Hush where Batman comments, "Superman is basically a good person. I'm not." That was the gift Frank Miller gave us.

Wileama wrote:Well it's don't know where it stands in cannon, but in Red Sun Batman totally lost.

Red Son! Jeepers, how could I have forgotten that one - my favorite Superman story? *smacks forehead* Yeah, it's an Elseworlds tale, but it still looks like we must increase the tally of fights between those titans to more than two..

Saying that Bruce totally lost in Red Son isn't wholly correct, though. Note how he completely got the drop on Clark directly after setting up the red floodlights designed to mimic the power-sapping sunlight of the Man of Steel's home world. It was only due to Diana's chipping in that the battle was won.

yeah, but any fight that ends in your rib cage exploding, wether you blew it up, or not is totally losing in my book. Yes Batman came really close to winning, but he didn't. Instead he blew out his own rib cage. Batman really is a bad ass.

Check this out.

Could you have warned me that I would have need to change my underwear? This is one movie I simply can't wait for.

Terribly sorry, Wile, but I didn't expect such an extreme reaction on your part (pun intended).

That trailer is unquestionably the final nail in the coffin for the theory that Heath Ledger is not fit to play the Joker. Summer 2008 can't come soon enough.

This just in, Batfans - six minutes of illegally leaked footage from the upcoming movie. Go watch this shit before YouTube flushes it down the bowl.

Again with the awesome. This joker is much cooler the the orginal. Video could be viral, definitely with the ending being a montage.

Aw, hell. Heath was found dead Tuesday in NYC.

Just heard about it, it´s terrible. He had alot of potential as an actor.

Well that is unfortunate. I feel like a jerk for saying this, but I'm glad that at he finished his work in the Dark Knight first.

Once I saw this thread, I just had to post this.

Wileama wrote:Well that is unfortunate. I feel like a jerk for saying this, but I'm glad that at he finished his work in the Dark Knight first.

Don't be. That's the first thing I thought of when I heard Ledger died.

Bryn you have just made my day.

All-Star Batman sucks. I know Heath's going to wow us from beyond the grave come summer.

Wileama wrote:Bryn you have just made my day.

Glad to be of service.

I just have one thing to say (and it's a piece from a song from the late, great, Wesley Willis). I whooped Batman's ass.

Anywho, with that out of my system. The Dark Knight is looking really good. It's a shame that leaked footage got removed before I saw it. I'm sure I would have loved it.

I saw that trailer just before I watched Iron Man. Yet I still makes my pants heart flutter. This is going to be such an awesome movie. I can't even contemplate the idea of their being a single thing wrong with this film. You don't think maybe I've built my expectations to high, do you?!

Oh what the hell, it's going to be awesome that's all that matters!

The Dark Knight is going to be awesome.

I mean, goddamnit, they have the friggin Batmobile! That already makes it awesome, but then they had to go and raise the bar with that Batbike-thing. I'd watch it even if George Clooney was cast as Brue Wayne!

I wonder how the Joker is going to be like? This is Heath Ledger's last piece of work, so it's of particular intrest to me (Cristian Bale on the other hand, is always awesome).

This Joker isn't going to so much split sides as split skulls. He's less manic, and more sardonic. In short, he's going to rock our world.

Clooney could actually have done the job, I say. But Schumacher just had to saddle him with that awful script.

Batman and Robin was a farce. But in a way it was a good thing, becuase after that debacle, most superhero movies actually put more work into creating a credible, sometimes even classic, script.

Can you imagine X-Men being a 'go out and beat up Magneto romp' without all the underlying issues it's so well known for? Or 'Spiderman' being a pure vanilla 'villian of the movie' type movie, without all the character growth that make it so appealing? And let us not forget Nolan scrapping the preious Batman movie continuity and reimaging the Dark Knight as he should be, even going so far as to make one hell of a steed for the exiled prince to ride (is it true the Batmobile was built in Britain?).

To think all that's becuase of a Batman suit with nipples on it.

I don't know where the hell the new Batmobile was built, but I do know that it's the best Batmobile evar.

Like I said - the nipples on the Batsuit didn't bother me. It was the script.

The movie was insane.

Harvey Dent becomes Two-Face somewhere in the middle (courtesy the Joker), and dies in the end. Rachel Dawes dies, too. The Joker proves he is one slippery son of a bitch, and survives. How they're potentially gonna bring him back now that Heath's gone is beyond me.

Heh, heh... he said nipples.