Angie's Perro

by **Nachtsider** Wed 24 Oct 2007 - 21:05

Gold.

Pure gold.

by **emperor** Wed 24 Oct 2007 - 21:14

Go to shoot Marco!!

:YARR:

by **Nachtsider** Wed 24 Oct 2007 - 21:19

Shoot Marco? But why?

by **emperor** Wed 24 Oct 2007 - 21:26

Nachtsider wrote:Shoot Marco? But why?

To teach him some lesson!!

:face:

by **Nachtsider** Wed 24 Oct 2007 - 21:45

What did he do to deserve being shot?

by Wileama Wed 24 Oct 2007 - 21:48

Coolest. Dog. Ever.

I must know raise a dog that will meet that level of awesome. Really the only thing he's missing is a bottle of hard liquor!

by **Nachtsider** Wed 24 Oct 2007 - 22:01

Doesn't look like a 'he' to me, Wileama.

I'm still waiting for Emperor to explain what he thinks Marco did to deserve being shot...

by **rusty-spring** Wed 24 Oct 2007 - 22:04

And a whole group of scantily clad bitches...

...that's what they're called!

Sheesh. Razz

by **ElfenMagix** Wed 24 Oct 2007 - 22:05

For the way he lost interest in Angie.
If anything, his ankle should be pee'd on

by **Nachtsider** Wed 24 Oct 2007 - 22:09

Blaming Angie for losing Patricia and treating the poor girl so coldly was undoubtedly wrong, but... shot?

by **emperor** Wed 24 Oct 2007 - 22:33

Nachtsider wrote:Blaming Angie for losing Patricia and treating the poor girl so coldly was undoubtedly wrong, but... shot?

Yes,I and Perro need to see when he scream!!

Razz

by Wileama Thu 25 Oct 2007 - 10:12

Nachtsider wrote:Doesn't look like a 'he' to me, Wileama.

We can fix that!

by **ElfenMagix** Thu 25 Oct 2007 - 10:33

"You sound like you can fix anything..." - Captain Rabello

by Danjo3 Fri 26 Oct 2007 - 1:14

Wileama wrote:We can fix that!

We'll fix that little puppie the same way we're going to fix the Gs-Boy's when we start bringing them on board.

by Wileama Fri 26 Oct 2007 - 7:13

My brain hurts now...

by Danjo3 Sat 27 Oct 2007 - 2:07

Wileama wrote:My brain hurts now...

As the Gunslinger Eunuchs Boy's would say: Be happy it's just your brain that hurts.

by **ElfenMagix** Sat 27 Oct 2007 - 10:34

Danjo3 wrote:
Wileama wrote:My brain hurts now...
As the Gunslinger Eunuchs Boy's would say: Be happy it's just your brain that hurts.

:lol!:

by **boomer_gonz** Sat 27 Oct 2007 - 11:50

Nachtsider wrote:Blaming Angie for losing Patricia and treating the poor girl so coldly was undoubtedly wrong, but... shot?

Maybe if it was just a flesh wound. Like a graze to the shoulder.

Afterward the dog would curse at him in French and laugh hysterically. Smile

by **ElfenMagix** Sat 27 Oct 2007 - 20:27

All that, after he pees on Marco's ankle.

by **Nachtsider** Sun 28 Oct 2007 - 3:43

Danjo3 wrote:We'll fix that little puppie the same way we're going to fix the Gs-Boy's when we start bringing them on board.

Sigh. It looks like my 'Lifetaker Lads' sorbiquet ain't never gonna pick up.

What's wrong with the boys, anyhow?

by Danjo3 Sun 28 Oct 2007 - 4:51

Nachtsider wrote:
Danjo3 wrote:We'll fix that little puppie the same way we're going to fix the Gs-Boy's when we start bringing them on board.

Sigh. It looks like my 'Lifetaker Lads' sorbiquet ain't never gonna pick up.

What's wrong with the boys, anyhow?

The argument was that the "conditioning" tends to cause the girl in question to fall in love with her handler. Now I myself, and a few others here, have admitted that our sex drives kicked in at around 9 years of age. Can you imagine what would happen if you were to condition an already horny boy? It would be like throwing gasoline on a fire. Think of what would happen when they hit puberty! If he had a female handler, he would eventually snap under the pressure and end up raping her. If he had a male handler... well, I'd rather not get into that. Suffice it to say, eunuch-izing would be the ideal solution.

To answer your question, there's nothing wrong with GSG-boys, as long as they're fixed GSG-boys.

PS: What do they really need their nuts for anyway?

by Wileama Sun 28 Oct 2007 - 9:27

I always thought that they just ended up rejecting the conditioning. That it didn't take hold very well in boys. There are a few physical differences between male, and female. Though one wonders how they came to this realization. Trail, and error? Which would mean they tried to condition boys, if not even full adults.

As for the rape thing. Cyborgs are conditioned to protect their handlers to the death. Rape would very much be failing in that regard.

Though, and this is important, I have nothing against a reduced sex drive. If I'm not mistaken in the Halo books all the Spartans have some treatment that reduces their sex drive. Which is wise. Their warriors they need to focus on fighting, not getting it on. I don't see a single reason not to do this for the Gunslinger girls, and maybe lads.

That being said, I would prefer it not touch their balls. Why? Sympathy. I love my balls. I would cry, a lot, if I lost them. I don't think any dude should have to got through that. I mean look at dogs. Yeah we take the pair away, but we at least have the courtesy these days to replace it.

by Danjo3 Sun 28 Oct 2007 - 11:04

Wileama wrote:I always thought that they just ended up rejecting the conditioning. That it didn't take hold very well in boys.

If the subject in question is a red blooded American boy (Oops, sorry I meant Italian) then I’m sorry but a conditioned GSG-boy with a female handler is going to have only one thing on his mind - boinking her. OK so he might not rape her. But I will tell you this - it going to be the #1 thing on his mind. Trying to get a GSGB to concentrate on anything else would be like pulling teeth. The only way a female handler could be assured of a successful mission would be to promise her GSGB a very special reward… if ya know what I mean.

by **rusty-spring** Sun 28 Oct 2007 - 11:20

Danjo3 wrote:I’m sorry but a conditioned GSG-boy with a female handler is going to have only one thing on his mind - boinking her.

That is easily fixed. Merely hire extremely ugly female handlers. I mean, like wicked witch of the west ugly. Off color skin, warts, grinding voice. Let's see that adolescent boy go after that now.

Wileama wrote:I always thought that they just ended up rejecting the
conditioning. That it didn't take hold very well in boys. There are a
few physical differences between male, and female. Though one wonders
how they came to this realization.

To play "party pooper" here, the Japanese LOVE (I mean like an unhealthy obsession with) cute things. Just look at Hello Kitty. That thing's like 10 years old and STILL popular as hell.

A young little girl is seen to be more cute/adorable than a boy. So I figure that's why we have girl cyborgs and not boy cyborgs.

That being said, personally I'm against cyborg boys. For the simple reason that it's "Gunslinger Girl." I mean, if it's not broken don't fix it. We ALL have seen someone or other who hasn't liked the new Second Generation cyborgs.

If you don't have a problem with male cyborgs, then there shouldn't be any problems with second generation cyborgs, or third and so on. Let one in, gotta let em all in.

by Danjo3 Sun 28 Oct 2007 - 11:21

I'm getting all screwed up here.

by Danjo3 Sun 28 Oct 2007 - 11:51

rusty-spring wrote:
A young little girl is seen to be more cute/adorable than a boy. So I figure that's why we have girl cyborgs and not boy cyborgs.

That being said, personally I'm against cyborg boys. For the simple reason that it's "Gunslinger Girl." I mean, if it's not broken don't fix it.

Ok, I got it now, anyway my thoughts exactly. Boys have no place in GSG because the entire premise of the story is based on just that - GIRLS! The relationship between big brothers and little sisters. Lets face it, that combo has a special something that a boy could never be part of.

And I'm sorry if it pisses people off but I'm going to say it again: A GSGB AND A MALE HANDLER IS JUST PLAIN CREEPY!

by **boomer_gonz** Sun 28 Oct 2007 - 15:38

Ironically, it was my original premise on the subject that prompted my first GSG fic. It might also prompt what some people call my insatiable sense of curiosity. I kinda sorta wondered why they didn't have any Gunslinger Boys, the Elsa Factor only lynch-pinned the outline.

by **ElfenMagix** Sun 28 Oct 2007 - 20:33

How it goes is one thing. The Mafia and other terrorist groups around the world have used little GsB's (Gunslinger Boys). Pinochio is one of them, if you want to look at it that way. And look how he turned out! Boys tend to go extreme, the more extreme the longer they are alive. Conditioned or not... Its the price we pay for being boys.

Girls on the other hand are a bit more controllable and under control of themselves. Also, since the bad guys are using boys (ie: Pinochio), everyone expect a boy to be gunslinging... but a girl? Thats least to be expected.

by **rusty-spring** Sun 28 Oct 2007 - 22:41

ElfenMagix wrote:but a girl? Thats least to be expected.

Ironically enough, if suddenly I started hearing about assassinations going on in the world with absolutely no idea who the killers were, the first thing I'd look for is if a little girl was seen before or after each hit. Razz

by **ElfenMagix** Sun 28 Oct 2007 - 22:45

Thats because we're Gunslinger Girl Fans! :twisted:

by Danjo3 Mon 29 Oct 2007 - 1:16

ElfenMagix wrote:Thats because we're Gunslinger Girl Fans! :twisted:

Everytime I think of GSGB's, the first thing that comes to mind is the campy 1960's TV series Batman. There was definitely something unwholesome about the relationship between Bruce Wayne and his ward Dick Grayson (Adam West, Burt Ward).

by Wileama Mon 29 Oct 2007 - 1:18

So much to say, but so little energy. Bed calls for me.

I agree that as a show GSG wouldn't work as well with boys. Though I'm not sure it's about brothers, and sister. A number of handlers fail to treat their girls as relatives. They have a relationship, it's just they struggle to understand what it is. For some it is like brother, and sister. For others it handler, and tool.

Doesn't mean I don't think it could work inside the universe of GSG. There is a difference between artistic fitting, and working in universe. Often the former tends to affect the latter.

I think your overstaying the sex angle. I don't think it would be as bad as you make it out. Do you love your mother? Did you struggled to not fuck her as a child? You could:
A) Attempt to adjust the kind of love felt.
B) Play down the level of love.
C) Just chemically kill the sex drive.

\\goes to bed

by Danjo3 Mon 29 Oct 2007 - 2:10

Wileama wrote:C) Just chemically kill the sex drive.

There's a good chance that stimulating the sex drive is one of the prime features of the conditioning process. What better way to cement the bonds of loyalty between a girl and her handler then giving her the hot's for him. Think about it - people (non conditioned people) do crazy ass shit while in the grip of romantic/sexual love, shit they would never do in a 100 years for the plutonic love of a family member. Hell, pick up the newpaper sometime. What do you see - fine upstanding pillars of society becoming embroiled in murder schemes, and why? Romantic, sexual relationships. I can't see a better way to turn a little girl into a serial killer. Muting her sex drive might defeat the purpose. It might give her a chance to sit back and ask herself, "Why the hell am I doing this?"

by **ElfenMagix** Mon 29 Oct 2007 - 10:40

Danjo3 wrote:
Wileama wrote:C) Just chemically kill the sex drive.
There's a good chance that stimulating the sex drive is one of the prime features of the conditioning process. What better way to cement the bonds of loyalty between a girl and her handler then giving her the hot's for him. Think about it - people (non conditioned people) do crazy ass shit while in the grip of romantic/sexual love, shit they would never do in a 100 years for the plutonic love of a family member. Hell, pick up the newpaper sometime. What do you see - fine upstanding pillars of society becoming embroiled in murder schemes, and why? Romantic, sexual relationships. I can't see a better way to turn a little girl into a serial killer. Muting her sex drive might defeat the purpose. It might give her a chance to sit back and ask herself, "Why the hell am I doing this?"

That is so true, Danjo!
Though you might want to have your cyborg to think on her own, you want her to think about ways on completing the mission for you and not questioning it.

by **rusty-spring** Mon 29 Oct 2007 - 11:11

The only problem I have with the whole sex angle is that people assume that the girls have the mindset of an adult.

They don't. Kids have the mindset or maturity level of a kid. Yes you could give them a sex drive, but without the understanding of that sex drive it would at best be confusing and at worst terrifying.

Why do you think children who were involved in sex abuse when young always end up mentally damaged in some way? Besides the betrayal of trust fact, they just don't understand what sex is and the mental baggage that comes with it.

Unless of course the conditioning would also implant 10 years of wisdom/experience into their brains with the Kama Sutra of sex knowledge in place of removed memories... But when I look at Henrietta and how irrational she is (compared to the older Triela) that doesn't seem to be the case. She's still just a kid inside.

On a lighter note, if they DID do such a thing. I'd hate to be the guy programming sexual desire into a 10 year old kid. *cringes*

by Danjo3 Mon 29 Oct 2007 - 14:43

rusty-spring wrote:Kids have the mindset or maturity level of a kid. Yes you could give them a sex drive, but without the understanding of that sex drive it would at best be confusing and at worst terrifying.

I had a sex drive as a child and I was never abused, confused or scared. I'm sorry buddy, but if you think kids don't have the same urges adults do, your sadly mistaken. They're just as horry as you or me. You're living in the dark ages or just selling them short. It's nice to think of children as pure, clean beings, but I got news for ya pal, they ain't.

by **ElfenMagix** Mon 29 Oct 2007 - 14:47

Lets not mix sex with physical desire. The two can can be part of each other, but it does not have to be. The issues here is how far does 'liking' there is until it turns into 'love' and how much of that is perversed into 'physical desire' and then that goes into an extreme of sexual desire. If plotted on the graph, this would be one skewed bell curve.

But as growing up as a child to a teen and then to adult, I had a sexual desires and had girlfriends of equal age with the same desires. Between 8 to 12+, many go into an exploritory phase, trying to make sense of how things worked and why. Most of them/us go through it without the abuse.

Sex, desire, love, like, it is never the same with any given 2 people.

by **Nachtsider** Tue 30 Oct 2007 - 3:15

Land sakes, people - I go AWOL for a few days and then this starts.

If you closely examine the canon, there isn't anything that states male operatives may not be used. The only piece of criteria that the Agency appears to have set with regards to selecting an operative is that the subject be a child (no specific gender stated). Granted, Yu used only little girls in his story and even entitled it as such, but I strongly believe this has more to do with personal preference on his part rather than any in-story factors mitigating against the alternative choice. Also, the fact that Pino exists surely supports the notion that he doesn't have anything against boys being part of the equation - notice how young Pino was when he first started his lethal career.

I'm not sure why we have to complicate things by introducing problems with libido and even neutering(!) into the whole fratello/sorella dynamic. What we've witnessed thus far throughout the original series (bar one exception) is a deep-seated, often obsessive, but essentially innocent and pure love of the cyborgs for their handlers. The argument that the conditioning process might stir something further than this doesn't really seem to hold water in light of operatives like Angie and Claes, who loved Marco and Raballo like daughters would their fathers, while Claes additionally revered her supervisor as a guide and mentor. No reason why we can't stick to this formula, or conceive similar relationships between a sorella pair - is the idea of a platonic relationship betwen a possibly attractive female supervisor and her ward so impossible to conceive?

Despite what people say, it is possible for libido and desire to be channeled into other outlets if you really think this will pose a problem. Several real-life examples immediately leap to mind, and Rico could be considered a good in-universe example of this phenomenon. Furthermore, the dynamic between a young boy and his older sister cannot be considered any less special than that between a young girl and her older brother. I know this for a fact, having been there myself.

The 1960's Batman television series is blasphemy, pure and simple - Satanist though I am, there simply isn't any other word to describe it. All talk of that monstrosity should be barred.

by Danjo3 Wed 31 Oct 2007 - 1:33

And the debate rages on. :chainsaw: I guess in the end it all boils down to personal prefrence. I personally hate the idea of GSGB's. I also don't understand why fic writers have such a double standard. Romantic love is fine for the girls but taboo for the boys. Of course, that doesn't apply to the boy when he's conquering one of the girls (Hey, I was going to say preying on). I think I'm safe saying this because he's no longer around, but a good example is Panzer's Marty/Stew OC Frederick. He not only bumped Triela out of her top dog spot, he fucked her out of it - literally. Jesus, talk about adding insult to injury.

by LoC978 Wed 31 Oct 2007 - 1:45

... I always tried not to criticize him too harshly, the Fred story was obviously just the hormonally induced ramblings of a teenaged boy who had a bit of an obsession with WWII (just look at the guns involved, the style of the missions he wrote, the attitude of the main character... straight outta {insert generic WWII FPS here}).
Hopefully he outgrows those obsessions someday.

by Danjo3 Wed 31 Oct 2007 - 2:10

He alway did tend to be a little on the emotional side...

by Wileama Wed 31 Oct 2007 - 10:11

I've already said what I had to about Lifetaker boys, and Nacthsider seems so keen on calling them.

Nachtsider wrote:The 1960's Batman television series is blasphemy, pure and simple - Satanist though I am, there simply isn't any other word to describe it. All talk of that monstrosity should be barred.

But it was so hilariously super camp. I mean in one episode batman almost has his leg bitten off, by a foam shark. After trying to land on a no existent boat, off the 'batcopter.' In which they flew over the city of gotham during which flight he gave a thumbs up to several officers who where giving him the civilian salute. How can you not laugh at that? Evil dead didn't make my sides hurt as much. Besides if not for that show, how could you have this?

by Danjo3 Wed 31 Oct 2007 - 10:41

Wileama wrote:But it was so hilariously super camp.

So true. I don’t see how anyone could take it seriously. It was intentionally way over the top. It was played so straight and wholesome, but every other line had a double meaning.

Wileama wrote: batman almost has his leg bitten off, by a foam shark.

OMG! I almost pissed myself!

by **rusty-spring** Wed 31 Oct 2007 - 12:35

Whenever I'm having a rough day I'm glad that I can find such craziness as to have a thread about a dog smoking a cigar and gun turn from sex, boy cyborgs, to wonderfully lame Batman clips. It's like web based ADHD. Razz

by Wileama Wed 31 Oct 2007 - 15:39

naw man we would be more cohere OH SHINY!

by **ElfenMagix** Fri 2 Nov 2007 - 20:59

by **Nachtsider** Sat 3 Nov 2007 - 20:50

Danjo3 wrote:So true. I don’t see how anyone could take it seriously

Wileama wrote:But it was so hilariously super camp.

Sorry to be the first one you've encountered who can't appreciate the campiness, people. I'm the sort of guy who loves the new Batmobile, thinks Danny DeVito's Penguin was the best ever interpretation of the character, and that story arcs like Hush, The Dark Knight Returns, Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth and The Killing Joke should set the standard for Batman tales.

We really oughta start a Batman thread sometime. Can't hardly wait for next year's movie.

by **ElfenMagix** Sat 3 Nov 2007 - 21:21

Nachtsider wrote:
Danjo3 wrote:So true. I don’t see how anyone could take it seriously

Wileama wrote:But it was so hilariously super camp.

Sorry to be the first one you've encountered who can't appreciate the campiness, people. I'm the sort of guy who loves the new Batmobile, thinks Danny DeVito's Penguin was the best ever interpretation of the character, and that story arcs like Hush, The Dark Knight Returns, Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth and The Killing Joke should set the standard for Batman tales.

We really oughta start a Batman thread sometime. Can't hardly wait for next year's movie.

Could be worse; The Gunslinger Girls Goes To Summer Camp!

Of course:
Claes will by by the lake fishing everyday.
Henrietta will be freaked out and writing love letters to Jose, asking WHY ON GOD'S EARTH YOU SENT ME HERE!
Amgie will having a grand time, because she'd forget why she was sent here in the first place.

by **Nachtsider** Sat 3 Nov 2007 - 21:33

I started to laugh when I read the final sentence you wrote, then I felt my heart breaking. The effect was equal to, if not better than, the effect I was trying to have on readers when I wrote this story.

That line could form the premise of a tragic and poignant fanfic.

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